Milton Mailbag -- Dispatch #21

[Raphael van Lierop]

Hello everyone,

Wow has this week gone quickly. Here's Dispatch #21! Looks like a shorter one this week as there weren't *that* many questions.

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Question from @smaointeoireacht:

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In the Dec update you changed the route to get to/from the Crashed Plane site, I was just wondering if there was any reason why you decided to do this? Was there a technical issue with the old route perhaps? Or future plans for the cave system by Spruce Falls Bridge to lead to somewhere new or different (not holding you to anything, just curious)?

This was to accommodate changes to the opening hour of Episode One. I found the old intro path into Milton felt kind of winding and empty, and was difficult to pace well, so it didn't make for the best opening or introduction to the game or world. By adding Mackenzie's Hangar, the player would have 15-20 minutes of gameplay before crashing on Great Bear, and by clipping the "survival bowl" section to just one night (vs. 4-5 days in the original), along with simplifying the route into Milton, I felt that this just made a stronger introduction to the game and world in general. I particularly like that this new route lets us present a vista of Milton before you arrive. So, the route change was made primarily for pacing and staging reasons.

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Question from @Vinceofpyrenees:

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Will you finish the first person presence animation this year ? I mean showing the right clothes on the arms of the character. When he wears gloves while the animations shows nude hands for example, it really seems an unfinished part of the game.

The reflection of player choice for hand and arm coverings in first-person is still on the list, yes. It's a pretty huge technical and animation challenge which is why we've put it off. It's always interesting to me to see how many people find this to be an issue -- it's certainly not universal (remember when you didn't even have hands in the game?  ). But as long as we can do it with an effort that is reasonable, we'll make an attempt, as I agree it's an important way for players to feel more connected to the game world. 

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Question from @Michi:

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Are you planning to eventually add a proper "beginning" to survival mode? I don't mean a cutscene, just actually starting next to a crashed plane and maybe having to pick up the starting supplies. It would definitely improve the immersion, but I guess even if it is something that you have planned, it has a very low priority, since creating a plane crash site for every single starting location would take a lot of resources that can be spent on more important things.

I have some ideas for this, yes, but I don't think it's what you have in mind.

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Question from @Looper:

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Ralph prev. stated that Frostpunk was a game that was a positive surprise in 2018. One of the things I like in that game is the temperature and storm cycle behaviour giving "build up" a real sense of urgency and purpose. Would such a gameplay feature be considered in long dark to challenge in the midgame? It could be more than normal cold blizzards which last longer, affect indoor temp (demanding wood stocks) and resets animal spawns. Obviously should be subject to game difficulty settings. Just to get your view on midgame development of survival mode in 2019.    

We actually already have some of this behaviour in the game, although it's certainly not as transparent as Frostpunk's UI which shows you exactly when these major temperature shifts will happen. For us, it's more gradual.

You'll also see if you play the WHITEOUT challenge (which predates Frostpunk, I'll add ) , that we have this idea of a "monster blizzard" and a kind of almanac page that counts down the days to this massive blizzard, and also shows days where you are likely to have blizzards (big and small) along the way. This challenge was a test to see how that kind of a long-term weather forecast might affect player choices -- ex. you might find Almanac pages in the world, and they might give you a hint of weather that might be coming in the future (next 5 or 10 days) so that you could prepare for it (stock firewood for the 2-day storm that's coming), or make travel decisions around it (don't plan that trip from Mystery Lake to Desolation Point because there's a high likelihood of a blizzard tomorrow).

I still like this idea and it's definitely something we could build on in Survival Mode. I also like the idea of dramatic temperature drops, as in Frostpunk, although I think it makes more sense in their world (arctic, steampunk, etc.) than it would in ours. I agree that we should be manipulating indoor temperatures more to keep indoor shelters a little more interesting.

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Question [SPOILERS] from @DerpyLemon115:

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Ok with that out of the way here is my question: at the point where you encounter the escaped convict named Hobbs you are given the choice weather to kill him with the knife he has stuck in him, or to help him by pulling out the knife. Well when you make your choice regardless of what it was the knife seems to disappear and you are unable to use it. Why is that? Was it just a mistake or are there other reasons?

I didn't want the decision to be motivated by whether you would get a knife out of it or not. The knife in this instance is a prop. The decision should be a narrative one and a moral one, not a gameplay optimization. 

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Question from @BareSkin:

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So, the question is simple: Is it pure luck the shelves at Trapper's are a perfect fit for curing guts?

I think that depends on if you are the curer or the "curee".

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Question from @Arran:

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I really like improvements in Redux Wintermute. I have some questions about map:
1. I am wondering why compass was added to Wintermute map? Arrow showing our direction breaks immersion a bit, as geomagnetic storm breaks compass, doesnt it?
Position indicator is great - on survival we can use charcoal to see where we are. But shoudnt position be revealed only during good visibility conditions? It breaks game a bit when on fog or blizzard we can open map and we know where we are and what direction we are looking at.

2. I would really love to see some icon with current position also in survival mode - to not break current balance only after using charcoal, when map opens. Currently map is centered, but when we are on maps edge it gets bugged a bit.

3. I also noticed there is limit of how many resources (plants, limbs, houses) can be mapped on survival mode. I was going to map everything, but when I'm almost done new things arent mapped any more - I think after reaching 100 objects mapped or so. Are there any plans to have that limit increased ?

 

1) Adding the position and arrow is a concession to Story Mode players who are generally more focused on exploration and narrative than on survival challenges. Even with the arrow, the game is still pretty tough.   

2)  I prefer that players rely on landmarks vs. a location marker. 

3) Hmmm...I'm not aware of an object limitation there. We'll have to investigate. If there is one it's not intentional and something I'd like to fix. 

In general I think our mapping system in Survival can use some love and it's something I'd like us to improve this year.

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Question from @Azdrawee:

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Now that REDUX was released, both episodes of Wintermute have the same cinematic intro. Before, this was only at the beggining of episode 2. Will the same intro be used for all 5 episodes, or will every episode have a different intro in the future? As much as I love it, it seems really weird to use the same one for two episodes.

In general, TV shows don't change their opening titles for each episode. Do you find it weird there too?

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Question from @codfish107:

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Way back when in 2016 after some announcements for Wintermute were made and we got to see what Will actually looked like, a bio for him appeared on the gamepedia wiki for the game and is still there now if you haven't seen it. My question to you is if that bio information was from Hinterland or if it was fan made? I know for myself and others, that page helped keep my interest in the game even though i had dropped out of the game for much of 2016.

Do you mean this bio? https://thelongdark.gamepedia.com/Will_Mackenzie

If so, I wrote this bio during our Kickstarter campaign in 2014. The game's story has changed since then, so the bio is no longer accurate, although some of the details are still true. I don't think we've released an official bio for Mackenzie, but we certainly could.

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Question from @ltnshinysides:

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There seems to be a general softening of the games difficulty and adding such items as the compass on the map (I have not seen this yet) that really seem aimed at making the game less challenging and more forgiving.  Thinking you know how to navigate and getting lost in the middle of a whiteout is an awesome lesson and a great demonstration of what makes TLD so different from other games. There is little hand holding and no reassurance that the game will prevent you from making epic mistakes. Also the much shorten path to Grey Mothers is another example of how it has been made easier overall. That trail was where I originally cut my teeth and learned real quick to not mess around with mother nature. So my question is: Is the Story mode's aim to be more of an introduction to new players while survival is hardened for the veterans? I don't love this idea but I do have to admit that when I first played TLD before story mode I liked the game but lost track of trying to play. I really didn't know what I was doing and did not have the extra time to learn so I put it down for a great deal of time. Then story mode came along and showed me the ropes and I fell in love with TLD. So I understand if story mode is aimed more at newer players but do you intend to make each episode harder or at least more difficult than episode 1? I know you can select the difficulty but while it seems to only mildly affect the environment and frequency of resources, it makes wolves incredibly more powerful and extremely difficult to deal with taking the focus away from the other aspects of the game and turn it into avoiding wolves at any cost. To me, the true spirit of TLD is the raw reality of mother nature and the dangers and rewards. The moments of being almost helpless and clawing to survive and then the triumph when you are finally able to learn how to survive and even thrive. Having to earn that creates an unique experience and sense of achievement that players share. Where as such items as a compass, easy paths and an abundance of resources circumvents that experience. Now I'm not saying this is what TLD has become by any means. I'm just asking the Hinterland team to consider once again how the difficulty and lack of hand holding really sets the player up to enjoy the game far more and in a different ways than most games. To strike that difficult balance between appealing to many while still being something unique and special. After all what would TLD be if it was easy, simple and had prompts to guide you through everything.  

I'm not sure I'd agree that shortening the path into Milton makes the game "easier" -- I think it makes the introduction more interesting and better-paced, which is really important for the opening of a narrative experience. Otherwise you are likely to lose players due to disinterest or unfair difficulty and then they never get into the "good stuff" later on, including -- possibly -- never discovering Survival Mode. We always have to think about the various "entry points" our players find into the experience of The Long Dark, and also it's very important to remember that not everyone who plays our game is looking for a punishingly challenging survival experience.

In general, I think what we've learned about WINTERMUTE and Survival Mode is that they appeal to different types of players, people who are looking for different things from the game. I do think that, even though Episode One isn't intended to be a tutorial per se, that like most games, the beginning tends to be a bit softer because there's so much for players to learn. This learning process is very different in Survival Mode, because there the regular failure and permadeath are integral to how you learn. But in a narrative experience, that kind of failure works against the emotions and sense of connection to the story we're trying to create for the player.

The challenge of survival and the "no hand holding" philosophy will always be core to how we make The Long Dark, and the best place to experience that kind of pure survival is always going to be Survival Mode. And if you are interested in the story of what happened to Mackenzie and Astrid, Great Bear Island, the history of the people there and what happened before and after the "first flare", then Story Mode is always going to be the best place to experience that. I do think it's also worth acknowledging that even if we've made some slight concessions towards new players or making the story experience a bit more accessible than Survival, The Long Dark -- in all its modes -- is still pretty unforgiving, and I don't feel at all that we hold the player's hand. We still expect a lot from the player, and that's never going to change. But, I also don't believe the most important thing we can do is make the game interesting *only* for those players who care about finding the toughest survival challenge around. That is one group of players we make the game for, but it's not the only group. I think what's important about that idea is that we have fluidity in our player community, meaning some people come in as story fans and "graduate" to the challenges of Survival Mode, while others might be long-time Survival fans and then find that WINTERMUTE adds new dimensions to their experience that they then take back with them to Survival.

In short -- I would deny the "general softening" claim. I think a healthier way to think about it is that Survival and Story are both becoming better at delivering the experiences they are intended to deliver.

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Question from @Faithful Cartographer:

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I'm with The Long Dark with alpha version 001=) I Would like to ask how relevant is your very first map of the great bear Island? I threw it in this post to make it easier for each other to understand. Painfully intriguing two transition Pleasant Valley and one coastal area. After all, surely there will be more locations by type of Desolation Point?

I would say the current in-game world map is more accurate than that old one.  We're still revealing the world of Great Bear slowly so we'll update the map accordingly over time.

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Question from @Doc Gonzo:

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Tell us something about TLD that we don't know ... 

Whenever I look at the name The Long Dark, I feel like everyone must be better at naming things than I am.  

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Thanks for all the questions and have a great week!

- Raph

 

[Admin]

Please use this thread for discussion of @Raphael van Lierop's answers. However, while we will be monitoring the thread, he won't be following up on questions here. If you have more questions please post them in the main question thread and they may be addressed in a future Milton Mailbag.

If you want to know if a topic has been addressed please check the Milton Mailbag Index.

[Azdrawee]

1 hour ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

In general, TV shows don't change their opening titles for each episode. Do you find it weird there too?

That's a fair point.

[Pillock]

Some really good information in this mailbag. Thanks! 

Some comments :

I still feel the map positioning arrow feels a bit out of place, especially in the harder setting. I'd prefer to play without it if I'm honest. 

And I also think it feels weird that the Hobbs knife disappears. Anyone who's played Survival Mode knows that the knife is an integral part of the game,and when they see it appear for the first time in Wintermute at that point, I think most people would expect to get it - regardless of the moral decision they make over Hobbs. I think that point in the Story feels like a good time to introduce the knife to the player, and it doesn't need to affect the choice you make (because you could retrieve it either way). If you didn't want to introduce the knife at that point, it would be better in my opinion to change it into a screw driver or something else like that that the player wouldn't expect to be able to 'use' afterwards. 

Finally, I'd just like to add support (if you're canvassing it!) to the idea of sporadic 'weather events', like super storms, in Survivor Mode. I think they'd be awesome. Also to more dynamic indoor temperatures! 

[codfish107]

9 hours ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

Do you mean this bio? https://thelongdark.gamepedia.com/Will_Mackenzie

If so, I wrote this bio during our Kickstarter campaign in 2014. The game's story has changed since then, so the bio is no longer accurate, although some of the details are still true. I don't think we've released an official bio for Mackenzie, but we certainly could.

Yes that one exactly, sorry i forgot to add the link.

I didn't see the kickstarter so i don't know, but i'd like to think it's from you even though it's understandably outdated now. Yes i would love to see some offcial bios of the main characters and maybe some others as well.

[Vladislav Pavlukovich]

Hello. I have a question. Will new cars be added to the game? I mean, will there be station wagons, vans, hatchbacks, other pick-ups and sedans? Maybe a new Farm Equipment, for example, a combine. It would diversify the game. What do you think? (Google translate) 

[deathbytes]

I agree the position icon should be removed from the experienced level of story mode. I'll go further and force charcoal to be used. Maybe still show objective icons but no map details. Or have the NPCs unlock only certain maps. Like when you find the map in the trapper's cabin, you're allowed to copy it down. Unlocking maps might be a cool idea for survival mode too. Could get sneaky and hide some in a buffer memory, aka like a shot of somebody using Google maps.

[Vinceofpyrenees]

On 18/01/2019 at 9:26 PM, admin said:

Please use this thread for discussion of @Raphael van Lierop's answers. However, while we will be monitoring the thread, he won't be following up on questions here. If you have more questions please post them in the main question thread and they may be addressed in a future Milton Mailbag.

If you want to know if a topic has been addressed please check the Milton Mailbag Index.

It's very good like it is !

[Lone Survivor]

So my question is this will there ever be a realistic backpack system?For example I don’t deny that one could carry 77+ lbs ofgear but the type of gear matrers too.You would need a huge backpack lol.So do you think there will ever be a backpack that has a limited amount of slots?

[Morrick]

On 1/18/2019 at 9:24 PM, Raphael van Lierop said:

Whenever I look at the name The Long Dark, I feel like everyone must be better at naming things than I am.

Well, I for one like it a lot. I don't know whether "The Long Darkness" was considered when choosing a name for the game, but it would have felt less powerful and emblematic — at least to my ears/eyes. 

Cheers, and as always thanks for taking the time to respond to people's feedback.

[MarrowStone]

On 1/18/2019 at 11:24 PM, codfish107 said:

Yes i would love to see some offcial bios of the main characters and maybe some others as well.

I think they would be nice if they were unlocked via completing the main story and doing side-quests. You'd find their bios in the game's "Extras" menu. 

I don't really want to learn too much about Will and Co. Outside of the game. Mostly out of fear it may spoil the storytelling (I'm not talking about spoilers, but more about the experience of learning about each character through active storytelling without relying too much on exposition.)