Milton Mailbag -- Dispatch #20


Raphael van Lierop

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Hey all,

I hope you've all had a great winter holiday, and hopefully some of you had the opportunity to dive in REDUX and some of the stuff we added to Survival Mode as well. The team was able to get some rest after the big push getting REDUX out the door, and now we're working on hotfixing some of the issues that arose during the studio shutdown, as well as planning for what's to come in 2019!

Below, I'll try to get caught up on some of the Mailbag questions that have accumulated in the mean time...

- Raph

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Question from @henroe32:

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Why did the studio decide to shift back to a menu UI System when cooking? The process of the add fuel, water, cook menu as of redux - in my opinion - breaks the immersion of the game and is just a pain to use on XBOX at least. 

So, we kept the placement-based system that we introduced in the previous last big update, but we also added the "picker" UI element to help clarify the different uses of each object. This means that the player can make a top-level decision about what they want to do (cook, boil water, etc.) and then go into those menus, vs. being taken to one menu that has to support all those actions, which becomes messy as we add more capabilities. With this revised UI, we can easily add new actions to lit fires, like Crafting (for example) -- things you can craft from a fire itself -- and now that we have this set up for fires, stoves, forges, etc., we can also start using it for other items, ex. Chairs (do you want to sit on a chair or harvest it? currently you can only do the latter when you interact with it b/c our interaction UI only allows a single action per). I know this feels like a big change when you're used to the "old" version, but it's really not that big a change. We're just surfacing the top-level choices you can make right away. This is also particularly helpful for new players that don't know anything about what different actions they can take.

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Question from @AltkanzlerSchmidt:

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Now to the question: Do you see this phenomenom as well and do you think its a problem? And do you plan to add more functions that drive us out of our cozy cabins into the wilderness to ensure our survival? Maybe the blueprints of craftable clothing that apear in Wintermute now could be found in certain locations? It always felt kinda odd to walk up to a workbench and having all the knowledge to craft things like boots and coats. Maybe the better ones can be only found in remote areas and get their values buffed as a reward for the risk we took...

I'm not sure I want to *drive* anyone from their cozy cabin (cough, Cabin Fever, cough), but I know that lots of players would like more reasons to to explore and get out into the world *after* they've put themselves in a pretty good situation with regards to supplies and whatnot. There are lots of different ways we could do this, but as always we have to find the right balance between supporting various play styles and not break behaviour that has become too favoured or too familiar. 

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Question from @Moll:

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What is future of Long dark after finishing All 5 episodes of Wintermute? Another story? Or Longdark will continue with updates into survival mode only?

We haven't announced any official plans for what we'll do with The Long Dark after we've finished WINTERMUTE. We could take things in a lot of different directions, which is pretty exciting. I also want to work on something new, so whatever we do will have to be a balance of continuing the work we've done on The Long Dark and keeping the game and community "alive", but also making sure we have the time and resources to nurture our next original IP. For my part, if people want to keep playing and paying for it (so we can keep running the studio), it'd be easy to keep making The Long Dark for 5-10 more years*, expanding it with new stories, locations, mechanics, etc. There are so many ideas and things we could do with it. 

* Not a promise. :)

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Question from @Sipriano:

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Jeremiah hada military past?

By the way the new animationsare so good, all the team  made an amazing job

 

Jeremiah is sure full of mystery, isn't he?

Re: Animations -- yeah we're really happy with how they turned out. The team really knocked REDUX out of the park.

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Question from @Jendo:

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What's the thinking/logic behind outdoor fires "lasting longer"? Way back when, I thought it was a bug, but it's survived numerous updates to the game. Is it to do with increased oxygenation outside, or...?

It's not a bug. We did this when we did a big overhaul of the fire/fuel system a couple of years ago. The intention was to provide some balancing incentive to using fires outside, as otherwise an indoor fire is *always* better than an outdoor fire (while being indoors has other obvious advantages). I'm not sure this still makes sense and if we were to overhaul the way fires work I'd probably revisit it.

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Question from @Serenity:

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Is there a chance for more difficulty settings in custom mode? With a few settings you an exceed the presets, but the most part you can only mix and match between the existing difficulties. Most notably, loot is abundantly available on anything but Interloper. This means there is rarely an incentive to craft animal clothing, making most of the recipes useless. What you can easily find everywhere is simply better. This is the case even on Stalker, but then there is a huge jump towards Interloper. It's similar with temperature decay where the only options are "barely noticeable" and "brutal"

I don't know if we'd add more settings, but we might have to modify how some of the settings work. When we rolled out the Custom Settings, we basically exposed all the same tuning variables we used to create the Experience Modes themselves, and that's why some of them make more sense than others (as some are very much about internal tuning and were never meant to be player-facing settings). Most of the slider settings correspond to a numerical value that's a multiplier -- so the difference between something like how quickly you become Cold in Interloper vs. Pilgrim might be a 1.5x setting on a base value. This "multiplier based" system works well for some settings and less well for others. We also clamped some settings in-game to avoid game-breaking settings which also limits how far into the extremes we can let you push things. If we are able to redo the custom settings, we'll try to expose a lot more variation in the ranges, so you can experiment with more extreme settings. 

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Question from @Guenter:

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In which quarter of 2019 or later is Episode 3 planned to be released?

We haven't announced specific release dates or quarters for Episode Three, and we aren't likely to. We probably won't announce any dates until we are basically on top of them.

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Question from @Ghost79:

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Why are feats disabled in custom survival mode?  
I like to custom my game between voyeur and stalker so I don't see why feat should be disabled in this case :(

 

 

Because Customs Settings allows you to make the game very easy which makes it very easy to harvest progress to unlock Feats, which goes against the spirit of why we included them.

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Question from @Messyjesse81:

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Why is the rabbit unafraid? 

It isn't.

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Question from @Brulreursdeloups:

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My question is : You are constantly improving the game making it better and better. It take some time and where is no limit for this. How you decide then to stop and move to another project? As an artist/gamedeveloper? As a businessman? As a team?

We'll stop working on The Long Dark when one of two things happens: (1) it doesn't make business sense to do so anymore, or (2) we get tired of it and don't want to do it anymore. :) 

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Question from @hozz1235:

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I have an old Survival game (on day 740) and I've noticed that the placement of certain objects are different than more recent Survival games (e.g. the truck outside CHD is in a different place, items in the Camp Office, etc.).  How is it you preserve those "earlier versions of the game" in recent versions?

In general, we don't. If we move something in a region it updates for all games using that region. That said, we are able to isolate changes between Story and Survival, so for example if we need to move a truck for a Story reason we can do that in the "story version" of the region and not the Survival Mode region. We have a pretty complicated layering process for our worlds which lets us control, to some degree, what you see in each mode.

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Question from @Tri13:

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Will, you ever consider adding a feature where you can just have your hatchet equipped and out to where we can see instead of only being able to use it in a wolf struggle?

If I ever believe the benefit is worth the effort. Right now, equippable Hatchets, Knives, Prybars, etc. imply a lot of new things about how you can interact with the world and those things create a lot of new challenges for us (effort + bugs) and would force other changes so we'd have to see a lot of benefit to doing this to make it worth it, vs. just implementing new features.

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Question from @Its_the_Gman:

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1. I'm currently spending my time in Survival Mode in the Big Milton House in the Mountain Town region, on Voyageur difficulty. I'm in the process of curing wolf, rabbit, deer pelts and even a Bear pelt, which I obtained from a Bear stalking the Spruce Falls Bridge. I would love to find a moose so that I can make a Moose-hide Satchel, but I can't seem to find one. I know from previous runs of Survival Mode and from the Wiki page that a moose can spawn either in the little Birch Forest in the Milton Basin and to the North of the Region, near a small pond, a little south-east to the trailer. I've had no luck near the small pond, so recently I made my way to the Milton Basin birch forest, where I found 4 trees with clear moose markings, but no moose. I thought "alright, well it probably just de-spawned for the day". So I went over to the Hermit's Cabin with a bedroll and spent the night there, only to return the next morning to still find no moose. I repeated this process for 3 more days until I got impatient and returned to the Milton House. Have I misunderstood the game mechanics? Do moose markings on a tree not guarantee an actual moose spawn? I've also had no luck with moose spawns in the Forlorn Muskeg. Is my game possibly glitched/bugged? Are there some in Mystery Lake or Broken Railroad?

I'm just cherrypicking this question from your big list -- feel free to ask the others again (maybe one at a time though ;))...

Moose -- seeing the markings on trees indicates this is an area a Moose *can* spawn. Doesn't mean it has or will in that particular game session. That said, there is a good chance it will. All wildlife spawns are governed by a variety of things, but as a general rule things appear on some kind of cycle (can be every 6, 12, 24, 48 hours, etc.) but this can also be impacted by weather or Experience Mode, etc. In addition to the two locations you noted, there's definitely a Moose spawn in Hushed River Valley. We'll probably add some more in the future. Good luck!

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Question from @Faithful Cartographer:

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3) You are talking about the realization of a spear in survival mode. Will it be implemented as in WINTERMUTE or will we be able to throw it? Will it be possible to hunt with a spear not only on the bear, but for example a wolf or moose?

We're working through the implementation details for the Spear. It's definitely a challenge to make it work well against other types of wildlife, so we have to be really careful how we approach this. Currently it's a defensive weapon and I think it's likely we'll keep it that way, but we haven't completed our work on it yet so things can still change. We'll do our best!

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Question (sort of) from @tulkawen:

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I'm just starting to play Loper and it looks like regeneration and how much you get hurt from ailments is different than in other modes or maybe there is update change is Dec. That approximate up and down mess doesn't give me any valuable info. I can't even understand if thirst or hunger hurts the survivor more. This is really annoying.

Same info as before. Just presented differently. Adapt or die.

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Question from @Stapeldiagram:

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GREAT game for introverts like me! I have now manage to survive 1100 days at voyager. Wheatstones are out and im starting to run out of cloth and birch sapling after looting every region. Beach combing is a possible never ending source of stuff but I dont think I will find enough things to survive doing that. What is the theoretical maximum days to survive? Which lack of rescource will finally kill me (removing self inflicted damage from the equation)?

Unknown as nobody has survived that long. My guess is eventually lack of Cloth (bandages) or a useful firestarter will kill you. Depends on so many variables and of course, a lot of luck. I suspect you are more likely to get killed by wildlife than die from running out of a particular critical resource.

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Question from @PistolMadman:

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I was wondering if there are plans to implement aurora behaviours for wildlife other than wolves and bears? Quick ideas include making deer hypersensitive to noise/smell, or making rabbits move faster so they're harder to catch. Something to remind the player that the aurora truly affects everything around them, and add extra challenge too. It's not a crucial addition to the game, but would certainly be nice to see in the future. Regardless, my brother and I are in love with your game and its fantastic sense of atmosphere, thank you for creating such a masterpiece!

Yes we probably will, but mostly for "predator" types.

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Question from @jesseofthenorth:

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What are the chances that your team might widen the field of view? I have been playing TLD since there was only one map but in the last few months it has been almost impossible for me to play because of gaming vertigo. If the field of view slider could be increased to as little as 120 I could play again. I really miss this game so much

Anything over 100 degrees introduces pretty extreme fish-eye effects and really messes with some of our other camera stuff, but we'll see what we can do.

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Question from @sunkbunk:

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I loved what you guys did in the latest update performance wise, especially for consoles. I was able to experience episodes 1+2 of wintermute for the first time and it was absolutely phenomenal. The game runs much more smoothly in general, but some areas like PV and such suffer pretty badly, arguably a little worse than before. I've also noticed that wind effects really bog things down as well in some instances.

Any more plans on further optimizations? It's incredible that the game runs as smoothly as it does for being on a shite console in the first place.

 

Yeah, we're not that happy with console performance or quality at the moment. We're pretty limited by hardware capability there, and also by what Unity can do. We've been told that Unity has done a lot of optimizations to their terrain system and we're really hopeful that we can capitalize on this to get the game running smoother and looking better for everyone, but it's too early to say. We'll be working on this in the next month or so.

Beyond that the only thing we can do to really improve performance (dramatically) would be a complete overhaul of the game world to make it compatible with streaming (vs. large levels like we use now), but that would probably be about a year's worth of effort on its own and so it's not something we can really justify at this point. If/when we make a new game in The Long Dark IP, we'll definitely build out a full streaming open world, which will give us more tools and flexibility to handle performance.

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Question from @Skelegutplays:

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Why do you forge the bear spear tip in EP2 of story mode at the railway yard instead of the more logical old spence homestead?

Because we come back to Forlorn Muskeg for a big chunk of the game after you craft the Spear and it would feel like extra backtracking.

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Question from @Gecko-[GER]:

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Do we ever get correct sun movements in all regions. So that the current world map is coherent.

Currently the sun is wrong in ML, BR, WR (west to east) and PV (northwest to southeast).

 

Are you sure? We did a big update on this about a year ago and we were careful to ensure the sun rose and set correctly.

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Question from @Darcilyn:

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First of all, I'd like to congratulate you on making this fairly easy to set up so that people disabilities can play. I was born without limbs and I operate the computer by Morse code for typing and a mouse I use with my right arm stump. I also have a homemade gaming device that my grandfather built me. Even with all of this most games are very hard for me if not impossible to play. The long dark's capability to change the key bindings is brilliant. Onto my question

I understand the long dark  Survivor mode is supposed to give you a feeling of isolation, but I can't help thinking how cool it would be if we were able to tame a wolf. I was wondering if there were any plans on adding that capability? Thank you

 

I'm not sure about having an animal familiar, but if you ever want to provide us with some extra feedback on how we can improve the game's accessibility, I'd welcome an email from you!! You're a real inspiration.

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Question from @legolegs:

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Hello, Raphael! Being a free software user I often use bugtrackers to help developers to improve their software. Unlike most videogames the Long Dark does have public issue tracker [ https://hinterlandgames.atlassian.net/projects/TLDP/issues/?filter=allissues  ]  where many people including myself do report issues (ex. this one). But I never seen any developer's activity there: no comments, no requests for more info, no closing as resolved/duplicate/invalid/wontfix. The question: is this whole atlassian thingy being actually watched by the Hinterland team? Is it good for the game to write down issues here and to collect debug-mode screenshots?

Hey -- yes, we review all the bugs that come into the public database, and if we don't already have the issues in our internal database, we copy them over. You don't see any communication in there b/c it'd introduce a lot of extra overhead for us but we are definitely reading all the bugs that come in, not just in the public JIRA database but through our various communications channels. These days we're trying to get people to use our Support Portal: hinterlandgames.com/support

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Question from @hozz1235:

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What is Hinterland's take on Mods?  I know they are not currently supported and we are discouraged from using them due to the headache from supporting modded games.
Do you have plans to support mods?  Perhaps a Hinterland-sanctioned mod kit?

I've seen some pretty cool ones that address many requested changes the community has asked for.

 

Yes, we plan to offer official mod support for The Long Dark.

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Thanks for all the questions! Enjoy your weekend and see you for next week's Mailbag.

- Raph

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Please use this thread for discussion of @Raphael van Lierop's answers. However, while we will be monitoring the thread, he won't be following up on questions here. If you have more questions please post them in the main question thread and they may be addressed in a future Milton Mailbag.

If you want to know if a topic has been addressed please check the Milton Mailbag Index.

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  • Hinterland
2 hours ago, tulkawen said:

 

No thumbs up for you. :P

If it wasn't broke, nobody asked you to fix it.

I find it incredibly insulting that you would assume we only make changes based on instruction by our players. You think you're the first player who hasn't liked something we added or changed in the game? You think your downvote is worth more than the upvote from players who like the change, or new players who will benefit from it?

This game is changing all the time. You won't like all of the ways it changes. Either get over it, or go play something else.

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Are you sure? We did a big update on this about a year ago and we were careful to ensure the sun rose and set correctly.

Taking into account that this particular sandbox is my third surviving (youngest) Pilgrim game, out about 1,000 [game] days, so maybe this was an artifact, here I am at the Camp Office looking at the new forestry lookout in the afternoon and the sun is setting towards Carter Hydro dam.  I don't need the sun to navigate and it really doesn't matter to me, but it still happens. My oldest Pilgrim game is now in Broken Railroad, but I haven't really paid attention to the direction of sunrise and sunset. 

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You do know that the in game map for Mystery Lake isn't oriented with the north to the top side of the map, right?

If you were to orient that map with north at the top of the map it looks like this:

MLMapTrueNorth.thumb.png.d5ade89da45831a84de05b8f179868a2.png\

Now take a look a the world map:

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I think you'll agree that the path of the railroad agrees with the map with north at the top.

The beautiful aerial contour map that someone made a while back follows the in-game map's convention and has north the the left. Here it is flipped around with north at the top:

MLContourTrueNorth.thumb.jpg.983b265f082494e6fd8985201dc2d460.jpg

The in-game maps don't always have north at the top of the map. Some of them do... but not all of them.

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10 hours ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

I find it incredibly insulting that you would assume we only make changes based on instruction by our players. You think you're the first player who hasn't liked something we added or changed in the game? You think your downvote is worth more than the upvote from players who like the change, or new players who will benefit from it?

This game is changing all the time. You won't like all of the ways it changes. Either get over it, or go play something else.

First:

I asked a question: The question was whether it is possible or not to use the in game settings to regulate the health bar features a) turn on % and b) make the bar bigger.  I have presumed at least the b option would be in game for players who do not see well. Many games have such customizable options. After the update I have checked the settings and did not find one, but I thought I may have missed some menu.

You have replied to me in a rude and condescended manner by saying 'suck it up' instead of saying, 'we're sorry such option is not available.'

If someone says, 'I can't see a certain feature well. Is there a way to make it bigger?' It is 'incredibly insulting' to tell them, 'adapt or die.'

Second:

I have provided feedback by saying that I find the new feature to be uncomfortable for the game learning dynamic. You do collect feedback from the players on your game don't you? Nowhere have I demanded that the game should be changed, I just asked if there is a menu feature to regulate it or not and tried to explain why I need it (a obviously more than b because b is self-explanatory), but judging from your rude response you only deem it suitable to be polite to players who praise you.

Thirdly:

You misunderstood. This is an excellent game and I will give it high rating. I said that I will not give you personally an upvote for that post because I find your superiority tone of 'suck it up, I do what I want' rude.

 

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15 hours ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

If we are able to redo the custom settings, we'll try to expose a lot more variation in the ranges, so you can experiment with more extreme settings. 

For me I'm not looking so much for more extreme setting, but more granularity. More options between the existing options. At least for some of them like temperature or loot. Other stuff like wildlife spawn chance for example are fine as they are.

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Because Customs Settings allows you to make the game very easy which makes it very easy to harvest progress to unlock Feats, which goes against the spirit of why we included them.

It can also be a game of the same difficulty though. Or harder in a few cases. And you can get feat progress on Pilgrim, but not if you slightly change the Interloper preset.

Ideally I'd like something like in some Paradox games like Crusader Kings 2 with the game rules: https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Game_rules

Each rule has a clearly defined setting for when it disables achievements. So you can customize the game a bit to your tastes, but if you turn off core features or set them to values that would make things too easy you can't get achievements anymore. Of course that would introduce even more complexity behind the scenes. And require another UI change to show why exactly feats are disabled.

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8 hours ago, stratvox said:

You do know that the in game map for Mystery Lake isn't oriented with the north to the top side of the map, right?

Even with that in mind, the sun still seems to be in the wrong place sometimes. I am 100% certain that I've seen the sun rise above the tunnel to FM while walking towards it on the rails in ML, which would be west. What confuses me even more is that in story mode, Jeremiah claims that the travel from ML to BR is southwards.

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8 hours ago, stratvox said:

The in-game maps don't always have north at the top of the map. Some of them do... but not all of them.

In addition to the in-game ML map not having north at the top, the only other in-game map I found not to have north at the top is WR.

5c3a0f48c8173_screen_(1670401367)_42bf8346-a16d-44be-b4e6-2d918e2bddbb.thumb.png.5b0ff8a75f6c3ce3919dd3f7c9f8bf3f.png

If you compare it to the world map, I think you'll agree the in-game needs to be rotated 90 degrees clockwise to match up with the world map.

16 hours ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

Currently the sun is wrong in ML, BR, WR (west to east) and PV (northwest to southeast).

I also  agree that the sun movement is still incorrect in ML, BR, WR and PV.

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7 hours ago, Vinceofpyrenees said:

"What's the thinking/logic behind outdoor fires "lasting longer"? Way back when, I thought it was a bug, but it's survived numerous updates to the game. Is it to do with increased oxygenation outside, or...? "

I didn't know this ! It seems effectively unjustified.

I do not want this changed. It makes being a caveman a viable option... even a superior one to living in abandoned dwellings.

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  • Hinterland
2 hours ago, tulkawen said:

First:

I asked a question: The question was whether it is possible or not to use the in game settings to regulate the health bar features a) turn on % and b) make the bar bigger.  I have presumed at least the b option would be in game for players who do not see well. Many games have such customizable options. After the update I have checked the settings and did not find one, but I thought I may have missed some menu.

You have replied to me in a rude and condescended manner by saying 'suck it up' instead of saying, 'we're sorry such option is not available.'

If someone says, 'I can't see a certain feature well. Is there a way to make it bigger?' It is 'incredibly insulting' to tell them, 'adapt or die.'

Second:

I have provided feedback by saying that I find the new feature to be uncomfortable for the game learning dynamic. You do collect feedback from the players on your game don't you? Nowhere have I demanded that the game should be changed, I just asked if there is a menu feature to regulate it or not and tried to explain why I need it (a obviously more than b because b is self-explanatory), but judging from your rude response you only deem it suitable to be polite to players who praise you.

Thirdly:

You misunderstood. This is an excellent game and I will give it high rating. I said that I will not give you personally an upvote for that post because I find your superiority tone of 'suck it up, I do what I want' rude.

 

I understood from your feedback that you find the new HUD to be a "mess" and "annoying" because you couldn't find information you were accustomed to finding. My feedback is that the info you are looking for is still there. I'm more than happy to take feedback from players (and do, and have for 5+ yrs) and the only time you'll see rudeness from me is when I think you are unfairly attacking me or my team for editorial decisions we make, or challenging our "right" to change the game to improve it as we see fit, which this statement:

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If it wasn't broke, nobody asked you to fix it.

...clearly does. The implication being -- if the "community" (in quotes since with 3m players there is never a consensus on what is better or worse for the game) doesn't like something, it should be changed, and if the community likes something as it is, it shouldn't be changed. We changed it because we felt it improved the game for the majority of players. I still believe that. We'll continue to make these kinds of changes. 

Regarding this:

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but judging from your rude response you only deem it suitable to be polite to players who praise you.

I know this is a convenient way to write-off my response, but we both know this isn't true. 

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@tulkawen

You can adjust the size of the hud! I have difficulties too with the very small icons but i changed it from "normal" to "big".

Also, you have to know that Raph  sometimes feels attacked for no reason and assumes that someone is insulting Hinterland or himself. Surly he  is also right about it, but often times not. Maybe it is because he is reading too much of reddit-steam-troll comments. Anyway, don't make a drama out of something written in a Forum :) I mean, how often will the Head of a Studio  engage with the community so closely?  In the end, the mailbag format is a nice thing from Raphael and Hinterland.

Just ask again for the next mail bag more precisely and i'm sure he will answer. Or leave it, because you can adjust the hud size!

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18 hours ago, stratvox said:

I do not want this changed. It makes being a caveman a viable option... even a superior one to living in abandoned dwellings.

Caveman is a more than viable option with the large heat bonus in (outdoor) caves even without lighting a fire.

What would be fun was to reevaluate the indoor automatic heat. There are many great fireplaces with no real use because cold won't ever hit. Imagine if temperature would go down somewhat indoor so a roaring fire was necessary. Hinterland has chosen the buff-route with the no-starvation. In tune with this a lit stove/fireplace could give you "warmed up"  bonus if going in door for e.g. an hour? 

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* Outdoor fires are much better than indoor fires for carcass harvesting, scaring off wolves, or moose hunting. 
* You can still see your daily condition range by percentages in your journal, if you need more precision than the status bar gives you. 

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It would be great if in some future update and not too late, put an adventure companion, a pet. Say a dog, a wounded wolfhound that you have to take care of and domesticate or something like that, it would give a lot of life to the game in survival mode.
Thanks for reading, keep up, great regards

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Just thought I'd add this shot from Broken Railroad. It had been foggy and then it cleared up. It became a beautiful afternoon. As best I can tell, if the indicated direction is anything like West, then the Broken Railroad region would have to be turned 90 degrees counter clock-wise from the way shown on the region map making the railroad (way behind me) run North-South.  That would put the tunnel to Forlorn Muskeg on the north-side of the region. 

20190112094449_1.jpg

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On 12.1.2019 at 12:06 AM, Raphael van Lierop said:

Are you sure? We did a big update on this about a year ago and we were careful to ensure the sun rose and set correctly.

Yes, i am pretty sure. I have put the world map and the sun movement in a picture in my

Travel Guide

where you can see the different directions of the sun's movement.

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