Willy Pete

Frozen Food

24 posts in this topic

I assume most folks here are well versed in the art of storing cooked meat outside, but doesn't it seem a little silly that you can just pick it up off the ground and stuff it into your maw after it's been sitting there in the freezing cold for however long? I guarantee if you threw a steak in the freezer you couldn't just eat it the next day. It'd be frozen solid and hard as a rock!

Instead, food left outside should freeze (much like dead animals do) rendering them inedible until you warm them up (either with body heat or a fire). In addition to this, adding some ability to preserve food with brine or by smoking would be nice as well, maybe after increasing the cooking skill or by finding specialized items.

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Good idea. If meat froze when just left outside it would explain why wolves don't immediately rush there and eat it all. Water should re-freeze too. Looks like tea already does at least on the surface, since dropped cups appear to roll randomly on the ground without spilling the contents ;). I'd leave canned food and sodas alone, they degrade faster in the open and their amount of salt and sugar requires really low temperature to freeze, surely in Great Bear the nights are cold enough but whatever.

Salting or smoking could be interesting additions, but having to find specialized items not. Adding a "I just started a game, I immediatly need to go to the only guaranteed spawn and pick up the thingy" would be uselessly bothersome.

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Really good point. It could be simple - put in the inventory and occasionally take a look in there, it could be displayed the way frozen clothes are displayed, and as soon as it completely defrosts you can eat it.

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17 hours ago, Willy Pete said:

food left outside should freeze

 

53 minutes ago, Mystix said:

Really good point. It could be simple - put in the inventory and occasionally take a look in there, it could be displayed the way frozen clothes are displayed, and as soon as it completely defrosts you can eat it.

Very interesting ideas and makes perfect sense.

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This would be a very fine way of balancing the extended storage outside. That would be great to pick a frozen steak outside, and throw it on a fire to prepare the meal... Very roleplay-ish.

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With the ability to defrost food with body heat, I'm somewhat OK with this.  Without that though, it would have a very harsh impact on interloper runs early on when the player has no matches and is pretty reliant on finding food by looting.  If we're shooting for realism here and meat  and water freezes, then cans of soup, peaches, dog food, etc. should also freeze.  Even candy bars and granola bars should be rock hard when found.  Without a matchless means to thaw it out quickly, most interloper runs would end before they even begin (even more than do now).  Even with the ability to thaw food with body heat, one would also have to consider the chilling impact of placing a bunch of frozen food items under your totally inadequate clothing at the start of an interloper run.

Edited by UpUpAway95

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9 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

 Even candy bars and granola bars should be rock hard when found.  

I keep some protein bars in my car to eat when I'm going home after training and I admit feeling like Pyornkrachzark.

The complaints about the already difficult interloper level are right. With the average temperatures in Great Bear de-freezing a piece of meat would take forever, like when you take something from the freezer and leave it overnight to thaw in the fridge. Really bad.

A less murderous mechanic would be to add the "chilling cold" negative buff to food. Eating or drinking warm stuff warms you up, crunching ice cubes and eating frozen steaks. could lower your temperature.

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14 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

With the ability to defrost food with body heat, I'm somewhat OK with this.  Without that though, it would have a very harsh impact on interloper runs early on when the player has no matches and is pretty reliant on finding food by looting.  If we're shooting for realism here and meat  and water freezes, then cans of soup, peaches, dog food, etc. should also freeze.  Even candy bars and granola bars should be rock hard when found.  Without a matchless means to thaw it out quickly, most interloper runs would end before they even begin (even more than do now).  Even with the ability to thaw food with body heat, one would also have to consider the chilling impact of placing a bunch of frozen food items under your totally inadequate clothing at the start of an interloper run.

People who begged for Interloper weren't interested in playing an actual survival game as far as I can tell; just in knuckle clenching tension. A lot of people don't play interloper (I have played it for one day, and only to get the achievement). It isn't a matter of I "can't", it is a matter of I don't enjoy it. I play this game to relax and to 'survive' ~ not for frantically running around to scavenge known loot drops. Different play styles, different reasons, etc. 

The game was never meant to be a Sim type, but that doesn't mean it should only cater to Interloper players; there are quite a few people requesting things for more immersion rather than more tension. This is just one on the list of those things.  People who've got more than 2000 hours into play time aren't really looking for new places to trudge to ~ they are looking for content, immersion, and things to do once that initial gearing up is done (at least I am ... can't actually speak for others, just commenting on requests I've been seeing lately).

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On 1/11/2019 at 3:25 PM, UpUpAway95 said:

Even with the ability to thaw food with body heat, one would also have to consider the chilling impact of placing a bunch of frozen food items under your totally inadequate clothing at the start of an interloper run.

I agree with you, but food that is found indoors for example won't be completely frozen like the food outside that would need more time in the inventory.

When you have good clothes and you're indoors you generate a lot of heat that could be used, when you're not so far ahead you'll have to use a fire.

And yes, keeping frozen food with you should get you a few degrees down, just like eating hot food warms you inside. When you heat some food or cook meat you have a chance to keep it with you so it doesn't freeze, or leave it out so it doesn't go bad and occasionally take some inside to defrost.

 

Edited by Mystix

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On 1/11/2019 at 8:55 PM, loriaw said:

People who begged for Interloper weren't interested in playing an actual survival game as far as I can tell; just in knuckle clenching tension. A lot of people don't play interloper (I have played it for one day, and only to get the achievement). It isn't a matter of I "can't", it is a matter of I don't enjoy it. I play this game to relax and to 'survive' ~ not for frantically running around to scavenge known loot drops. Different play styles, different reasons, etc. 

The game was never meant to be a Sim type, but that doesn't mean it should only cater to Interloper players; there are quite a few people requesting things for more immersion rather than more tension. This is just one on the list of those things.  People who've got more than 2000 hours into play time aren't really looking for new places to trudge to ~ they are looking for content, immersion, and things to do once that initial gearing up is done (at least I am ... can't actually speak for others, just commenting on requests I've been seeing lately).

I'm not sure how merely pointing out how a suggestion would affect a particular in game difficulty level differently from others is lecture worthy.  I did say at the start of my post that I was OK with the suggestion as long as some form of body-heat warming was implemented.  Interloper players start in the more difficult areas that have fewer (or not any) indoor areas and do not have matches with them.  That's how the game is currently set up, so... reality.  If they had essentially no access to food until they acquired matches, that difficulty level would be completely not viable and it would mean that Hinterlands might as well remove it from the game.  Although there are many players who do not play interloper, there are some here who have told me that they only play in interloper mode.  I don't think an addition should suddenly make their favorite difficulty level not viable.  It's as simple as that.

Edited by UpUpAway95

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3 minutes ago, Willy Pete said:

You would definitely need the body-heat to defrost mechanic. Would be dumb if you didn't.

I would also add that, if this idea is implemented, there should be absolutely no sodas found outside or in cars any longer.  If you've ever accidentally left a pop in the freezer after trying to just chill it more quickly, you should understand what would happen to any left outdoors in the game.

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11 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

there should be absolutely no sodas found outside or in cars any longer

Makes sense, but might be taking things a little too far. TLD is just a game, after all.

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8 minutes ago, Willy Pete said:

Makes sense, but might be taking things a little too far. TLD is just a game, after all.

I don't think that would be a big deal.  They could just adjust the loot tables to put water bottles in those spots (frozen) and up the jerky or candy bar ratios to make up for the few lost calories.  Or they could add drink boxes of fruit juice (that wouldn't freeze as easily as water and wouldn't explode like sodas.

Edited by UpUpAway95

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On 1/13/2019 at 7:44 AM, UpUpAway95 said:

I'm not sure how merely pointing out how a suggestion would affect a particular in game difficulty level differently from others is lecture worthy.  I did say at the start of my post that I was OK with the suggestion as long as some form of body-heat warming was implemented.  Interloper players start in the more difficult areas that have fewer (or not any) indoor areas and do not have matches with them.  That's how the game is currently set up, so... reality.  If they had essentially no access to food until they acquired matches, that difficulty level would be completely not viable and it would mean that Hinterlands might as well remove it from the game.  Although there are many players who do not play interloper, there are some here who have told me that they only play in interloper mode.  I don't think an addition should suddenly make their favorite difficulty level not viable.  It's as simple as that.

I apologize if that came across as a lecture ~ it certainly wasn't intended that way. It is an issue that comes up constantly at this point, and directly (and imo negatively) affects every play mode. Everything is centered around whether or not interloper will be ok, or scaled back might be a better way to word it, because interloper exists. There are quite a few areas and topics where the game could be made so much more immersive ... except ... interloper. It comes up again and again and again. In the same way additions may make interloper not viable, interloper keeps all the other modes in a sort of stagnant state. I hope that some things can be worked on, possibly requiring using custom settings for different levels. 

In no way would I suggest scrapping interloper ~ but it would be nice if immersive content could still be added for the other three modes of survival and let individuals decide via custom settings. I can only speak for 'me', but for me, this is now an issue that will mean the difference between playing this game or moving on at some point because of sheer boredom. Given what I've duplicated via mods in a different game, the content IS possible ~ and at a difficulty that actually makes interloper feel easy. It is in that context that my comments were made.

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5 hours ago, loriaw said:

I apologize if that came across as a lecture ~ it certainly wasn't intended that way. It is an issue that comes up constantly at this point, and directly (and imo negatively) affects every play mode. Everything is centered around whether or not interloper will be ok, or scaled back might be a better way to word it, because interloper exists. There are quite a few areas and topics where the game could be made so much more immersive ... except ... interloper. It comes up again and again and again. In the same way additions may make interloper not viable, interloper keeps all the other modes in a sort of stagnant state. I hope that some things can be worked on, possibly requiring using custom settings for different levels. 

In no way would I suggest scrapping interloper ~ but it would be nice if immersive content could still be added for the other three modes of survival and let individuals decide via custom settings. I can only speak for 'me', but for me, this is now an issue that will mean the difference between playing this game or moving on at some point because of sheer boredom. Given what I've duplicated via mods in a different game, the content IS possible ~ and at a difficulty that actually makes interloper feel easy. It is in that context that my comments were made.

As far as I can tell, the difficulty dilemma you describe would be easily solved - allow custom games to count towards feats as well as achievements instead of just achievements).  In that way, there is absolutely no reason to not just play different custom settings.  The defaults would only be the equivalent of quick settings for convenience.  As it is, I plan to switch completely over ot custom settings as soon as I get all my feats.

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As an addendum to my previous post... I'd be for "frozen food" if there was also an option to turn it off in the custom settings (and preferably with the ability to acquire feats also added to the custom settings).  That way, if I wanted to play a game with a "matchless" start at any level, I could set my starting gear to "low" and turn "frozen food" off.  If I was really gung ho, I could also try a "matchless" start with frozen food "on."  (I absolutely love that this game allows for so many custom parameters already.)

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All this talk of custom vs standard modes has me thinking a little off topic, but why not blend the two? A quick example: if you're going to play a Pilgrim game you can pick and choose whatever options you want. Select things, deselect things, have ultimate freedom of choice. On the opposite side of the spectrum, if you're going to start an Interloper game you are more limited in your options of tailoring the game. You might be able to choose to turn two bad things off or otherwise nullify them, whereas on Pilgrim you could choose to have it work however you want.

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1 minute ago, Willy Pete said:

All this talk of custom vs standard modes has me thinking a little off topic, but why not blend the two? A quick example: if you're going to play a Pilgrim game you can pick and choose whatever options you want. Select things, deselect things, have ultimate freedom of choice. On the opposite side of the spectrum, if you're going to start an Interloper game you are more limited in your options of tailoring the game. You might be able to choose to turn two bad things off or otherwise nullify them, whereas on Pilgrim you could choose to have it work however you want.

To a certain extent, you can do that now.  You can call up the template for any of the default settings in Custom and tweak those settings individually however you like.  The only "penalty" is that you can't progress towards your feats while playing in a custom mode.  You can still get achievements though.  If they would allow the feats to progress while in custom, a custom mode would have every benefit of a standard one.

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8 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

As far as I can tell, the difficulty dilemma you describe would be easily solved - allow custom games to count towards feats as well as achievements instead of just achievements).  In that way, there is absolutely no reason to not just play different custom settings.  The defaults would only be the equivalent of quick settings for convenience.  As it is, I plan to switch completely over ot custom settings as soon as I get all my feats.

I had all my feats before custom games were added. As far as I can determine they aren't planning to allow them to progress under a custom setting ~ you're supposed to grind those out. It would be nice to give people that option though (and I say that as someone who did grind them out!). This is by far the most linear game I play. The strictures are one of the reasons people ask when it will be opened up for modding so often. As a modder, I understand that. We'd have a whole lot more food if I were allowed to get in there and tweak things ... much more variety, actual meals, etc. It wouldn't be difficult to stick with the in place balancing ... but you can bet that I'd also make sure there was a neat and tidy way to store it! Even my campsites in other games are neat, tidy, and well organized lol.

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2 hours ago, loriaw said:

I had all my feats before custom games were added. As far as I can determine they aren't planning to allow them to progress under a custom setting ~ you're supposed to grind those out. It would be nice to give people that option though (and I say that as someone who did grind them out!). This is by far the most linear game I play. The strictures are one of the reasons people ask when it will be opened up for modding so often. As a modder, I understand that. We'd have a whole lot more food if I were allowed to get in there and tweak things ... much more variety, actual meals, etc. It wouldn't be difficult to stick with the in place balancing ... but you can bet that I'd also make sure there was a neat and tidy way to store it! Even my campsites in other games are neat, tidy, and well organized lol.

Frankly, I wouldn't be interested in a mod that gives us more food.  There's plenty to be found or via animal kills for the skilled player at the low setting (where interloper puts it).  If a player wants to play a modified interloper, they can already increase both the amounts of loot (which includes food items that can be found) and passive animal spawns (deer and rabbits) through the custom menus.  In Pilgrim (i.e. at the high settings), there is almost too much processed food that can be looted in the easier map areas; and if you add in the number of cat tails and deer carcasses that can be scavenged, it's possible to go 50 days or more without killing anything (I've done it).  I know modders like to find excuses to mod a game, but I really don't see a need for such a mod in this game.

Also, I'm not the sort of player who's impressed merely by different colored pixels.  Adding more varieties of sodas, for example, doesn't really add to my immersion.  A "full meal" vs. a MRE, does nothing different as far as changing the challenge of the game; and for me, challenge is what generates immersion... not pixel variety.  The range of food in this game is good enough to cause me to consider the calories I get from each of the ones that are available.  Having a bunch of other foods that would have very little caloric difference from what we already have wouldn't add to the "game" (i.e. challenge) itself.

Finally, I'm at a loss how the feats would be made any less grindy by allowing them to progress in a custom mode game.  You would still have to travel the 1000 k to get snow walker and start 1000 fires to get fire starter.  It's not like they would be any easier to get in any custom mode than in Pilgrim mode.

Edited by UpUpAway95

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On 1/15/2019 at 3:06 PM, UpUpAway95 said:

Frankly, I wouldn't be interested in a mod that gives us more food.  There's plenty to be found or via animal kills for the skilled player at the low setting (where interloper puts it).  If a player wants to play a modified interloper, they can already increase both the amounts of loot (which includes food items that can be found) and passive animal spawns (deer and rabbits) through the custom menus.  In Pilgrim (i.e. at the high settings), there is almost too much processed food that can be looted in the easier map areas; and if you add in the number of cat tails and deer carcasses that can be scavenged, it's possible to go 50 days or more without killing anything (I've done it).  I know modders like to find excuses to mod a game, but I really don't see a need for such a mod in this game.

Also, I'm not the sort of player who's impressed merely by different colored pixels.  Adding more varieties of sodas, for example, doesn't really add to my immersion.  A "full meal" vs. a MRE, does nothing different as far as changing the challenge of the game; and for me, challenge is what generates immersion... not pixel variety.  The range of food in this game is good enough to cause me to consider the calories I get from each of the ones that are available.  Having a bunch of other foods that would have very little caloric difference from what we already have wouldn't add to the "game" (i.e. challenge) itself.

Finally, I'm at a loss how the feats would be made any less grindy by allowing them to progress in a custom mode game.  You would still have to travel the 1000 k to get snow walker and start 1000 fires to get fire starter.  It's not like they would be any easier to get in any custom mode than in Pilgrim mode.

I've been playing Skyrim using Campfire, Frostfall, and Hunterborn for years now. It isn't "just" more variety of food. It's the building of skills, and a marked difference in what you can and can't do when comparing the start of the game to 10 or 20 or 40 levels later. There is a sense of accomplishment that is flat out lacking in TLD by comparison. It's also the sheer waste of so much viable meat, bone, fat, sinew, antlers, etc. As a real life hunter, I despise people who shoot a 180 pound animal and either take the head for a mount or lop off the backstrap and maybe a roast and leave the rest to rot. There is absolutely nothing 'thoughtful' about that, nor do we have any choice in the matter. 

Now ~ there are marked differences between the two games and there will never be a meeting point. That much is a given. That in no way means there is no room for improvement. The fact that your enjoyment comes from the challenge doesn't negate the fact that mine comes from accomplishment in addition to the challenge. The bottom line is I can mod one game to be much more difficult than even interloper (ie. much harsher weather, NO loot, no people, far more dangerous animals/more variety of dangerous animals,  no buildings, and predators in every cave) and still have a vast variety of food, clothing, actual decent weapons that I craft from resources I gather, etc. does matter to some people. I'd rather 'survive' because I live long enough to gain skill that is a true benefit instead of a few feats that are limited by the devs. 

In many ways, these things were hinted at and spoken of as part of the dev's plan for quite some time. That began to taper off WHEN interloper was introduced. It's their game, their call, and their choice. This is a wishlist. I've already recreated my wishlist elsewhere regardless of what they do or don't do. I will say that there are many 'survival' type games that looked incredibly promising, and had the potential to 'be' survival games instead of loot 'em and shoot 'em. TLD has remained a favorite for years. It's quite possible that it may be time to just move on for me ... because like so many others it has tilted more towards the Adrenalin rush than actual survival. Again, not my call. 

I've bragged up this game. I've gifted it to several people. I've never been what some call a 'fan boy' regardless of how much I've enjoyed it. My bottom line is that new regions is no longer a reason to stick around (I've been playing since ML was the only region), and story mode absolutely doesn't do it for me. I've more than got my money's worth with over 2000 hours played. But .. I've got twice that in other games. Right now this one simply won't cut it for me much longer without some actual content. I now tend to play only until I'm initially geared up ~ and then there really isn't anything left except grind. Your mileage is obviously different. Neither of us is wrong, but it may very well be that I'll run out of gas very soon. I'd have been happy if they had never gone further than ML and just added real content instead of just more places to get the same stuff.

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7 hours ago, loriaw said:

I've been playing Skyrim using Campfire, Frostfall, and Hunterborn for years now. It isn't "just" more variety of food. It's the building of skills, and a marked difference in what you can and can't do when comparing the start of the game to 10 or 20 or 40 levels later. There is a sense of accomplishment that is flat out lacking in TLD by comparison. It's also the sheer waste of so much viable meat, bone, fat, sinew, antlers, etc. As a real life hunter, I despise people who shoot a 180 pound animal and either take the head for a mount or lop off the backstrap and maybe a roast and leave the rest to rot. There is absolutely nothing 'thoughtful' about that, nor do we have any choice in the matter. 

Now ~ there are marked differences between the two games and there will never be a meeting point. That much is a given. That in no way means there is no room for improvement. The fact that your enjoyment comes from the challenge doesn't negate the fact that mine comes from accomplishment in addition to the challenge. The bottom line is I can mod one game to be much more difficult than even interloper (ie. much harsher weather, NO loot, no people, far more dangerous animals/more variety of dangerous animals,  no buildings, and predators in every cave) and still have a vast variety of food, clothing, actual decent weapons that I craft from resources I gather, etc. does matter to some people. I'd rather 'survive' because I live long enough to gain skill that is a true benefit instead of a few feats that are limited by the devs. 

In many ways, these things were hinted at and spoken of as part of the dev's plan for quite some time. That began to taper off WHEN interloper was introduced. It's their game, their call, and their choice. This is a wishlist. I've already recreated my wishlist elsewhere regardless of what they do or don't do. I will say that there are many 'survival' type games that looked incredibly promising, and had the potential to 'be' survival games instead of loot 'em and shoot 'em. TLD has remained a favorite for years. It's quite possible that it may be time to just move on for me ... because like so many others it has tilted more towards the Adrenalin rush than actual survival. Again, not my call. 

I've bragged up this game. I've gifted it to several people. I've never been what some call a 'fan boy' regardless of how much I've enjoyed it. My bottom line is that new regions is no longer a reason to stick around (I've been playing since ML was the only region), and story mode absolutely doesn't do it for me. I've more than got my money's worth with over 2000 hours played. But .. I've got twice that in other games. Right now this one simply won't cut it for me much longer without some actual content. I now tend to play only until I'm initially geared up ~ and then there really isn't anything left except grind. Your mileage is obviously different. Neither of us is wrong, but it may very well be that I'll run out of gas very soon. I'd have been happy if they had never gone further than ML and just added real content instead of just more places to get the same stuff.

Sorry if I've offended you.  If the additional food types actually add some concrete difference to the gameplay, then I'm all for it.  What I said is that I would not be interested in a mod that just essentially changed the skin of such items and gave them different names.  Similarly, just asking for different items to be gathered to craft it alone is not sufficient.  The gathering of the required items should require different skills and present different challenges to make the addition worthwhile.  For example, there's no real tangible difference in the skills needed to gather rose hips vs. reishi mushrooms.  They also heal in the same way (by making a tea).  Sure, they treat differently named ailments that have slightly different affects on the player; however, that's not enough, IMHO, to justify both being in the game.  The only thing really added is "annoyance" minutia... meaning if I randomly get X ailment, I have to look for rose hips; but if I randomly get Y ailment, I have to look for mushrooms instead.  To me, keeping track of too many of those little details bogs a game down more than it adds to it.  (I'm an old Minecraft player who got more bored a fed up with that game as they added more and more food items that all did exactly the same thing... and only served to force me to make more and more chests in my base to accommodate the collection of them that grew from there.)

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