Adding Alcohol

[Lonelyloper]

Maybe it's been mentioned before, but I think adding alcohol would be interesting. I'm thinking you can use hard liquor as an accelerant in fire starting, used to disinfect wounds or used as fuel in a lamp. 

Of course you could drink it too, maybe to help stave off cabin fever? But of course if you overdo it, there will be consequences lol. I can see it having quite a lot of possible uses.

[stratvox]

I think that's pretty unlikely, in all honesty. One of the major categories in determining the age ratings for video games is "drinking, drugs, and smoking". I think they have skirted very carefully around those to ensure that they don't cause the age rating to rise above its current status of 13+.

You could even say that's about Hinterland's version of The Long Dark... surviving in the video game industry!

[Khan_Drichthyes]

Hey, I already asked for a still.

Tongue-in-cheek, of course.

[Silverhour]

Call it something like 'Grain alcohol' and have the flavour text read 'Useful for starting fires and disinfecting wounds. Drinking it might make you go blind though, so probably not a good idea.' I would compare it to books, where it says right in the text that it would be great to read them, but all you're going to do is burn them.

[stratvox]

Well, while you might compare it to books, the video game industry sees it as something completely apart. Given the requirements (and especially time frames!) for getting approvals through systems like the PS4 and XBox software distribution channels I'm pretty sure Hinterland has no interest in getting reclassified as an adult game, and will steer very clear of any game feature that might do so.

[Guest kristaok]

Here's the thing though... if Stardew Valley can have alcohol (beer, ale, mead, and wine) and still be rated E10+ then why can't TLD? Just saying... 

I doubt they'd get more than an E10+ or T rating for adding some alcohol, I would love to see alcohol because they're good for wounds (removing bacteria), and they have been used for pain relief in olden times.

Edit: I found this 

The E10+ rating is placed on games that are appropriate for everyone at least 10 years old.

The ESRB says these games may have “more cartoon, fantasy or mild violence, mild language and/or minimal suggestive themes.”

Games with an E10+ rating may have content descriptors such as “Fantasy Violence,” “Mild Blood” or “Alcohol Reference.” 

[ThePancakeLady]

Raph has addressed this idea several times, recently in the  Milton Mailbag Dispatch #10 :

Question from @Soul Sojourner:

Quote

Often in small towns, secluded or otherwise, alcohol and bars are a significant way for people to stifle boredom and have a good time. Even with a low availability of shipments coming in, people often find inventive ways to start brewing and distilling their own and make a living doing it. Alcohol is also good disinfectant when nothing else is available. Why are there no bars or alcohol in the game, even if purely cosmetic? Would it negatively affect the game's rating?

If you pay close attention in the cinematic sequence that takes place in Mackenzie's office at the Jackrabbit Transport hangar -- where we first meet Astrid in flashback -- you'll see that there's a bottle of whisky on his desk. Regarding in-game alcohol affecting our rating, in some territories we've included alcohol and tobacco in the ratings just to "future proof" for if/when we add those items to the game. Since almost everything in the game has some kind of gameplay impact or value, we wouldn't add alcohol unless it offered some cost/benefit to a specific action. So, the real reason there's no usable alcohol in the game is that it hasn't felt like the most important item to build gameplay around, even though -- as you point out -- there are definitely many potential uses. 

[Guest kristaok]

It's good to know it's not a hard no, because again it can be done without raising the rating - the E10+ allows alcoholic references. 

I just sincerely hope they add alcohol. 

I love tld but even I must admit it's weird that nobody has any old alcohol flasks or bottles laying around especially in that climate where alcohol can be used to treat wounds etc. 

They could implement it as a wound dressing and a drink, but if you drink it - it can cause a buff where you stagger and you cannot aim your weapons well and cause the fatigue bar and food bar to drain faster. 

[ajb1978]

Alcohol references are one thing, depicting its actual consumption is another.  About the only way I could see alcohol being added in a way that doesn't impact ratings would be isopropyl or denatured ethanol.

[Guest kristaok]

7 minutes ago, ajb1978 said:

Alcohol references are one thing, depicting its actual consumption is another.  About the only way I could see alcohol being added in a way that doesn't impact ratings would be isopropyl or denatured ethanol.

But Stardew Valley has alcohol that you can consume and the game is still rated E10+ so again it's possible. 

[Mixxut]

1 hour ago, kristaok said:

But Stardew Valley has alcohol that you can consume and the game is still rated E10+ so again it's possible. 

Well tbh, you can't compare alcohol in Stardew Valley to  alcohol TLD. It just doesn't work like that.

 

[Guest kristaok]

7 minutes ago, Mixxut said:

Well tbh, you can't compare alcohol in Stardew Valley to  alcohol TLD. It just doesn't work like that.

 

Why not??? Alcohol is... well alcohol...

[stratvox]

You keep talking about ESRB, but there are at least two other rating systems that govern age ratings for video games around the world. Further, this game is distributed via the XBox and PS4 networks, and a change in PEGI, ESRB, or whatever it is the UK system is called, it also triggers re-evaluation of the game for those channels. This created problems for Hinterland on the initial 1.0 release, and can delay things like hot-fixes etc to people on those channels for weeks. I'm not surprised at all that they tread very carefully around those issues; doing anything else would be foolhardy for the company.

[Guest kristaok]

1 hour ago, stratvox said:

You keep talking about ESRB, but there are at least two other rating systems that govern age ratings for video games around the world. Further, this game is distributed via the XBox and PS4 networks, and a change in PEGI, ESRB, or whatever it is the UK system is called, it also triggers re-evaluation of the game for those channels. This created problems for Hinterland on the initial 1.0 release, and can delay things like hot-fixes etc to people on those channels for weeks. I'm not surprised at all that they tread very carefully around those issues; doing anything else would be foolhardy for the company.

Yes the ESRB 10+ allows the use or at least references of / to alcohol. I also just checked PEGI, from what I have seen they could either get 12 or 16. Since they would not be "glamorizing" alcohol they could probably get by with a 12.

https://www.thelongdark.com/news/the-long-dark-ratings-and-launch-dates/

RATINGS & LAUNCH DATE(S)

UPDATE: We have updated the launch date for countries governed by PEGI.

Hello intrepid survivors,

With our launch around the corner, we wanted to update you on the ratings we’ve received and how that impacts our launch timings.

We’ve been navigating the lengthy ratings submission process with the various government ratings boards, and here’s where things currently stand:

THE AMERICAS
For ESRB, which covers North, Central, and South America, we have been issued a “T” rating, which means anyone 13 or over can purchase and play the game.

GERMANY
For USK, which covers Germany, we have been issued a “12” rating, which means anyone 12 or over can purchase and play the game.

EUROPE & RUSSIA
For PEGI, which covers all of Europe, and also Russia, we have been issued a “16” rating, which means you have to be 16 or older to purchase and play the game.

This PEGI-16 rating was an unexpected surprise to us, as we had a PEGI-12 rating going into our Certification process with Microsoft and Sony.

Unfortunately, we just received this rating earlier this week and we are now forced to re-submit the game to Sony Europe for approval. As a result, our launch in Europe on PS4 is being delayed until August 9th, 12:01 am.

For Xbox One, we will launch in all countries covered by our three current ratings, on August 1st. Additional territories (ex. Australia, New Zealand, etc.) will be made available as soon as we secure ratings and get those versions through Microsoft.

For Steam, we will launch worldwide on August 1st. There is no rating requirement or certification process on Steam.

We’re really disappointed about the PEGI-16 rating, and we think it’s quite out of line with our other ratings, but this is the rating we’ve been issued. We are currently working with Sony Europe to get the game through their certification process with this new rating, and our goal is to have it in the European PlayStation store by August 8th. We are also working with Sony Europe to secure a launch discount to soften the sting of having to wait an extra week.

I just found thee above and it appears TLD has a T for Teen Rating from ESRB, and a PEGI 16. So if they already have those Ratings that permit Alcohol, then what's the problem???

I will add this, I too like them are shocked they got PEGI 16 already in TLD's current state... Everywhere else gave them a 13+. 

It's not like they'd be glamorizing Alcohol by adding it especially if it could be used for dressing wounds, and if drunk it could have some cons to it. It's historical to use Alcohol on wounds that's why I don't understand why they can't or wouldn't, back then it was do or die when it came to keeping wounds clean. This game is in a similar boat, yea it may not be based on olden times, but it is happening during an apocalypse when you're gonna use what you can to survive.

EDIT: For places like Russia etc. with a strict PEGI etc. TLD could make Alcohol optional in the menu settings, I mean I have seen where other Games have the ability to turn Blood on or off, so why not Alcohol? There's gotta be something they can do...

[ajb1978]

7 hours ago, kristaok said:

I mean I have seen where other Games have the ability to turn Blood on or off, so why not Alcohol? There's gotta be something they can do...

Yes.  But given all the variables you mentioned...why would it be worth it?  What actual tangible value would alcohol add to the game that isn't already there?

None.  Sorry, I do understand your point, but given all the hurdles, I submit it is not worth the effort.  We already have two types of antiseptic, and two types of accelerant.  Alcohol as a sort of antiseptic/accelerant may be helpful, but making it also consumable and invoking those rating repercussions, that slight convenience is not worth the mountain of rating shenanigans.

Edit: I would back a non-drinkable alcohol such as isopropyl or denatured ethanol, because an antiseptic/accelerant (heck maybe it's a triple-duty item that also functions as lamp oil) as a high-level item on par with flare shells or Mukluks would be a fun addition.   Just for the convenience and utility.  I mean heck, who doesn't love options?  But sorry, I cannot and will not support a drinkable alcohol, just because of the ratings shenanigans.

[Guest kristaok]

2 hours ago, ajb1978 said:

Yes.  But given all the variables you mentioned...why would it be worth it?  What actual tangible value would alcohol add to the game that isn't already there?

None.  Sorry, I do understand your point, but given all the hurdles, I submit it is not worth the effort.  We already have two types of antiseptic, and two types of accelerant.  Alcohol as a sort of antiseptic/accelerant may be helpful, but making it also consumable and invoking those rating repercussions, that slight convenience is not worth the mountain of rating shenanigans.

Edit: I would back a non-drinkable alcohol such as isopropyl or denatured ethanol, because an antiseptic/accelerant (heck maybe it's a triple-duty item that also functions as lamp oil) as a high-level item on par with flare shells or Mukluks would be a fun addition.   Just for the convenience and utility.  I mean heck, who doesn't love options?  But sorry, I cannot and will not support a drinkable alcohol, just because of the ratings shenanigans.

Drinking Alcohol can not only be used for wounds, well and drinking, but it also can be used to get a fire going so that's another use for it! Alcohol isn't a worthless thing, it was highly prized in olden times... just look at the 20's how sorely missed Alcohol was! 

[stratvox]

18 hours ago, kristaok said:

I just found thee above and it appears TLD has a T for Teen Rating from ESRB, and a PEGI 16. So if they already have those Ratings that permit Alcohol, then what's the problem???

I saw that page as well. I was playing the game by then, and I remember well how much of a pain that ended up turning into for the devs, with a number of folks using it as an excuse to come on in here and trash-talk 'em, esp. after an earlier fiasco from before when I had the game that resulted in them looking bad (some kind of countdown gizmo where they ran into problems at the very end and had to not release on time). That's why they got out of promising specific dates, and I'm sure that the PEGI stuff (and the delays it caused in Europe on the PlayStation and XBox networks) is why they are not going to do any messing around with the ratings.

In short, it's a business decision to not risk creating problems for themselves by needing to resubmit to the approval processes for those networks.

[Guest kristaok]

3 hours ago, stratvox said:

I saw that page as well. I was playing the game by then, and I remember well how much of a pain that ended up turning into for the devs, with a number of folks using it as an excuse to come on in here and trash-talk 'em, esp. after an earlier fiasco from before when I had the game that resulted in them looking bad (some kind of countdown gizmo where they ran into problems at the very end and had to not release on time). That's why they got out of promising specific dates, and I'm sure that the PEGI stuff (and the delays it caused in Europe on the PlayStation and XBox networks) is why they are not going to do any messing around with the ratings.

In short, it's a business decision to not risk creating problems for themselves by needing to resubmit to the approval processes for those networks.

Yea I heard of that countdown stuff and the hate that happened from people... sadly people can be so vicious.