Regarding The Choice With Hobbs

[ChillPlayer]

On 20.12.2018 at 5:41 AM, Raphael van Lierop said:

Only players of this game could experience a moment like that, face a choice like that, and then worry about why they didn't get to "keep the knife" after.  

lol made my day

But for me it's the other way around, TLD makes me behave inside a game as I would in RL. As a player of any other game I would've killed the bastard without hesitation, the story offers enough reasons to do so. But in RL I don't think I would be able to kill a human being, especially not one who didn't cause me any direct suffering and that's the reason why I pulled the knife out. I didn't spend a single thought though on why I haven't received the knife, I already had a flare gun and a hatchet and that's all I needed at that point in the story.

[ChillPlayer]

*hmm why can't I edit my posts anymore?*
So I had to redo that part with the knife due to the transition bug and this time I played like a gamer and pushed the knife. I immediately regretted it, it just fell wrong. Methusalem also gave me quite the lecture afterwards in the climbing area, which means in a sense the game is judging your actions. I think in future such moments I'll stick to being the good guy

[Ice Hole]

1 hour ago, ChillPlayer said:

*hmm why can't I edit my posts anymore?*

Post can be edited. 

Although only for a limited time.

Happy FESTIVUS!

edit

HAPPY   YULE  TIDE ! !

Edited December 22, 2018 by Ice Hole

[Dan_]

6 hours ago, ChillPlayer said:

But for me it's the other way around, TLD makes me behave inside a game as I would in RL. As a player of any other game I would've killed the bastard without hesitation, the story offers enough reasons to do so. But in RL I don't think I would be able to kill a human being, especially not one who didn't cause me any direct suffering and that's the reason why I pulled the knife out. I didn't spend a single thought though on why I haven't received the knife, I already had a flare gun and a hatchet and that's all I needed at that point in the story.

That's a very interesting thought process, I'm always invested in a character when playing any game (I'm always as lawful as one can be in RDR for example) and he does mimic most of my own set of beliefs, but I'll mix in some roleplaying in there as well. I usually don't make the mental connection in a 1:1 scale from the real world. 

In real life, I'd probably leave the knife where it already was given that it rendered Hobbs immobile. My thought process would be: How to mitigate the risk that this convict tracks me down and tries to kill me if he ever recovers? He did go after my ex-wife after all, with god knows what intention and I wouldn't have the stomach to harm him directly either. In game, I pushed the knife as soon as he started talking like a sadistic you know what. 

Regarding the possession of the knife after the scene, I honestly did not want it. The scrap metal shard is lighter and can be used as a knife in a pinch, I already had my hatchet by then and with the amount of food available I haven't really had to hunt and skin animals. 

[ChillPlayer]

7 hours ago, Ice Hole said:

Post can be edited.

try again

Seems there's a time limit.

[BareSkin]

On 12/21/2018 at 8:00 AM, MueckE said:

I don't want to be rude here, but folks please! If you think in that situation like "i want this knife" - then actually you are a psychopath. That is exactly how someone without empathy or any kind of moral would think  (a psychopath)..

I did push the knife, and I still have problems with snapping rabbits. Rabbits are innocent, he was not. Am I a psychopath? Still, if the game told me the guy would be dying slowly in suffering anyway, I would have made the choice to pull. I'm technically against death penalty as long as the guy suffers his whole life.

Being without empathy for a murderer is not being a psychopath, it's just about not being Christian, and so far I think will still have this right. I didn't think about the knife, since I already had one anyway.

Edited December 22, 2018 by BareSkin

[RossBondReturns]

1 hour ago, BareSkin said:

I did push the knife, and I still have problems with snapping rabbits. Rabbits are innocent, he was not. Am I a psychopath? Still, if the game told me the guy would be dying slowly in suffering anyway, I would have made the choice to pull. I'm technically against death penalty as long as the guy suffers his whole life.

Being without empathy for a murderer is not being a psychopath, it's just about not being Christian, and so far I think will still have this right. I didn't think about the knife, since I already had one anyway.

As a Christian gamer (and Pastor's Kid) it was my choice in the game to give him a chance to live.

No one is innocent, we're all guilty, but the amount of times God extended grace toward me- before I as a PK was saved I will probably find out is much more than I think.

So I gave Hobbs mercy, pulled the knife, in reality giving him a chance to survive longer...and perhaps find salvation.

Yet pulling the knife in reality could've unplugged the wound speeding up his death.

I felt the moment was incredibly powerful either way one chooses- Redux is amazing!

[MueckE]

calm down, just like i said, if you killed him because you don't feel empathy for him, because actually you are angry at him, you think he is evil, than for me personally would be a questionable base to make your choice of, but still a normal behavior. But if you don't care about all that at all and just think: "oh cool, a knife, i need that" - than this is something very diffrent. I also don't want to brand someone here a "psychopath", i just wanted to point out that it makes no sense to kill someone with the justification of him beeing a psychopath and at the same time basing the real intention on getting the knife. I didn't want to judge anyone here, in the end it's just a game.

[Black_Bird]

In both scenarios, he will die but:

(0. How can he survive like one or two days with a knife in is chest deeply in...)

1. With the amount of blood lost when you pull the knife, he will surely die quickly.

2. Push the knife is even something nicer I think, he is already dying slowly so if you stop is pain by making him die quickly you did a good action. 

[fauxjargon]

On 12/20/2018 at 3:44 PM, ajb1978 said:

I pulled the knife out, personally.  And he probably won't survive anyway. That wound was deep, and probably pierced intestine. Untreated, that wound will become septic for sure, leading to a slow tortured decline in health, and a miserable end.

So there's a rebranding on the moral dilemma.  Push the knife in and grant a quick death, or pull it out and let him suffer. 

I honestly thought he was going to die when you pulled the knife out - although you still would have done the right thing by attempting to help, he would have died of blood loss from the knife being removed from the wound.

[Ice Hole]

12 minutes ago, MueckE said:

I didn't want to judge anyone here, in the end it's just a game.

Couldn't agree more.

Ross you choose to play whatever and however you choose.  I think it is a great idea that you play with morals. 

All avenues in a choose your own adventure book are valid.

To me I saw him dead either way.  The doc that could have saved him has been chased off.  Hobbs wanted a quick death and goaded us.  The anger Will felt about Astrid missing caused him to act passionately.

[U47]

I wish there had been a twist option. I pushed it in and no it did nothing to change me.

[RossBondReturns]

16 minutes ago, Ice Hole said:

Couldn't agree more.

Ross you choose to play whatever and however you choose.  I think it is a great idea that you play with morals. 

All avenues in a choose your own adventure book are valid.

To me I saw him dead either way.  The doc that could have saved him has been chased off.  Hobbs wanted a quick death and goaded us.  The anger Will felt about Astrid missing caused him to act passionately.

Just to make it clear I'm not calling anyone out or a psychopath or anything else for doing whichever option they chose.

Yes when I play a story game I tend to project myself onto the protagonist I am playing as.

Hobbs as the antagonist reveals quite a complicated story, and as I as Will listened, I had to listen carefully and re-evaluate my position more than once. The choice was not something I made quickly. Afterwards I sat weighing Hobbs words before I made the choice.

This sequence was simply more proof in the pudding if you will that Redux was a brilliant and welcomed overhaul in writing in this case, and world building over Predux!

And me entering Broken Railroad for the first time later today will I'm certain only continue to affirm how much Wintermute has been improved.

[fauxjargon]

26 minutes ago, Ice Hole said:

Couldn't agree more.

Ross you choose to play whatever and however you choose.  I think it is a great idea that you play with morals. 

All avenues in a choose your own adventure book are valid.

To me I saw him dead either way.  The doc that could have saved him has been chased off.  Hobbs wanted a quick death and goaded us.  The anger Will felt about Astrid missing caused him to act passionately.

In addition to my theory that Hobbs would die shortly after you pulled out the knife anyway, I can totally see why Hobbs tried to goad Will into killing him - he's got a bad knife wound and there are no doctors and the world just ended - he's screwed.

[Ape88]

I honestly had to consult this thread before I could make a decision as to whether to pull or push the knife. I'm not sure either action would have ended Hobbs' suffering from a medical point of view or killed him quickly. The fact he said he couldn't feel his legs, and looking at the fact there was evidence of him dragging himself inside in the way the blood smears were, I decided to do as he asked. There wouldn't be an immediate reward  either way, and he'd be unlikely to hurt Grey Mother in the condition I left him in. I did however spend a few days at the farm as just afterward... Ended up with food poisoning and needed time to recover and get into a safe enough condition that would allow survival in the offchance that there was an unavoidable wolf encounter on the way back to the credit union and to Grey Mother. He didn't appear to be dead when I left, just passed out.

If the knife had been a potential reward dependent on the decision made, that would have been useful as in total I had two wolf encounters later on and the shard became useless upon ending the second encounter. On the other hand, if the knife had been made useful, I think it should have required some serious cleaning before it could be safely used. After all, who knows if Hobbs was a carrier for any potential pathogens...

Edited December 22, 2018 by Ape88

[stapeliad]

On 12/19/2018 at 11:41 PM, Raphael van Lierop said:

Only players of this game could experience a moment like that, face a choice like that, and then worry about why they didn't get to "keep the knife" after.  

I also thought that's how I got the knife!  LOL

[RossBondReturns]

Heck I'm in Episode 2 and am yet to find a knife!

But I know of where at least one more hatchet is...and I found my first whetstone.

[ChillPlayer]

1 hour ago, RossBondReturns said:

Heck I'm in Episode 2 and am yet to find a knife!

try the

fishing huts

To all the knife-pushers: didn't Methuselah's scolding made you at least question your choice? It sure did for me, I find it pretty obvious that this was the wrong choice.

[RossBondReturns]

7 minutes ago, ChillPlayer said:

try the

  Reveal hidden contents

fishing huts

 

To all the knife-pushers: didn't Methuselah's scolding made you at least question your choice? It sure did for me, I find it pretty obvious that this was the wrong choice.

I'm pretty sure I know where that meeting took place....but my path through the area...avoided the potential meeting place.

[JeremiahJohnson]

1 hour ago, RossBondReturns said:

Heck I'm in Episode 2 and am yet to find a knife!

But I know of where at least one more hatchet is...and I found my first whetstone.

Fishing huts in mystery lake. Or you can eventually build one at the forge in Broken railroad at maintenance yard

[BareSkin]

4 hours ago, ChillPlayer said:

To all the knife-pushers: didn't Methuselah's scolding made you at least question your choice?

Absolutely not. Methuselah is not scolding you, that's you're interpretation of this encounter. He just wants to make sure you think about what you did, there's no judgment from him. And since his sayings had religious connotations, I didn't really listen and thought to myself: the man is plain old mad, yet I like the poetry that he speaks.

All I wanted for Hobbs was that he couldn't do any more harm, well both ways end up the same, since I think you can't heal from such a wound and magically feel your legs again. The choice was between quick or slow death, and that's why if I had to make that choice again, I would pull. I'd rather do nothing and let the man die from Astrid's hand honestly, that's what he deserves since he intended to take her life.

Edited December 23, 2018 by BareSkin
typos

[Guest kristaok]

 

I am a Christian and I had absolutely no problems with stabbing him, he kind of deserved it imo... I couldn't trust letting him run around with Grey Mother, Astrid, etc. etc. still out there. 

Basically I don't see anything wrong with self defense, in real life I would do the same when it comes to protecting not only my family but others...

I have a little saying... mess with me and my family you better know God because you're gonna meet Him. 

PS. in reality pulling the knife out would have killed him anyway, so I guess in a sense I showed him mercy... I made his death a lot quicker.

Edited December 23, 2018 by kristaok

[DesertWolf29]

I hope it matters later. And I think we should’ve at least been able to keep the dang knife if we choose to pull it out.

[Guest kristaok]

I agree.

[Doc Feral]

Killed him. Didn't get to take the knife. Loaded previous save. Pulled the knife out. Still no knife. By the bristly whiskers of Hello Kitty's grandpa, it must be a bad joke!

I decided to quit without saving, tomorrow I'll probably finish him anyway. I just don't want the creep to get off the couch and kill me in my sleep, and he'd probably start to gurgle breathing anyway, which is gross.