Regarding The Choice With Hobbs

[FunkyFuggerson]

Hinterland, kudos for having a moral choice far, FAR better then choosing whether or not to loot a gas station for supplies. But for the love of god, please have this choice actually matter in later chapters. If you spare Hobbs life make him show up down the line either interacting or antagonizing Will or Astrid in later chapters. Or if you killed him, would you make it so it actually affects Will beyond word changes in his dialogue like in Telltale games? I let a dangerous criminal live, MAKE IT WORTH MY WHILE EH?

[Simone Else]

i killed the bastard, the only regret is i couldnt keep that knife

[Raphael van Lierop]

1 hour ago, FunkyFuggerson said:

Hinterland, kudos for having a moral choice far, FAR better then choosing whether or not to loot a gas station for supplies. But for the love of god, please have this choice actually matter in later chapters. If you spare Hobbs life make him show up down the line either interacting or antagonizing Will or Astrid in later chapters. Or if you killed him, would you make it so it actually affects Will beyond word changes in his dialogue like in Telltale games? I let a dangerous criminal live, MAKE IT WORTH MY WHILE EH?

Doesn't the choice change you as a player?

[Tri13]

 

Im getting off the forums for now untill I play the reduxes. 1. So I do not feel awkward because most people have bet it already. 2 So I don't get the changes maid spoiled. So bye Ralph and bye Forums until I complete the redux.

[cullam]

If I can throw in my 10 cents on a related thought. 

I loved this addition, and I really wasn't expecting it. Very cool. But I think most of us were a little surprised that we couldn't keep the knife, either way. From a game play perspective, I understand why. It just seems odd, while playing, and makes you wonder if there's a glitch. So, if we aren't supposed to be able to keep the knife (which I'm assuming is correct), might I suggest that the tool was in fact a screw driver? Hobbs even says that it might be. It would then feel totally normal, and not disappointing to leave it behind. 

Edited December 20, 2018 by cullam
typo

[Raphael van Lierop]

Only players of this game could experience a moment like that, face a choice like that, and then worry about why they didn't get to "keep the knife" after.  

[trevalyan]

RPG players who don't hoard trivial loot like jealous dragons? I envy you somewhat.

You could always give us a 2% knife, just to tease how punishing scarcity is.

[Blankshield]

2 hours ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

Only players of this game could experience a moment like that, face a choice like that, and then worry about why they didn't get to "keep the knife" after.  

For me, it was immersion-breaking.  I had the knife in my hand, and then it was gone.  I saw how Will stared at that knife and could practically hear the "this is a person's blood" running through his head.  I was trying to decide if I wanted to keep a knife like that, but that decision wasn't left up to me.

[MueckE]

One of the nicest moments of the game! Like Raph said, didn't it change you as a player?

In my opinion we shouldn't meet him again later, that makes it even better. Will asks him something like: "now you go after grey mother?". And that makes the decision even harder. Now i have to live with this uncertainty wether or not i maybe caused grey mothers death after all by not killing him - or the other way around if you killed him and later in the story he maybe would*ve saved someone or helped you. Now if he comes back one way or the other, the game and Raphael would teach us by force how he thinks is the "right" decision because half of the players would be punished for their decision. So i think it would be best just to leave it this way, don't meet him again (at least not in an important way).

In the first version of Wintermute you would meet him again and you would be punished/rewarded for your decision - Redux should keep the new spirit and shouldn't go that route.

[JeremiahJohnson]

I personally thought the moment changed the whole vibe of the story. Choosing to end someones life based on their past, or save them because you think he still has a small chance to make a difference. In my opinion, ending his life seemed more suitable than letting him continue to cause havoc in Milton. Even though it may have strongly effected Mackenzie mentally and emotionally. Methuselah seemed to think differently... I am seriously enjoying Wintermute Redux. Adding more characters was a needed part of the game. It added enormous amounts of depth to the story... Just began Chapter 2 last night. I still can't believe that I couldn't tell that David Hayter was the voice for Jeremiah all this time...  The Metal Gear Solid series is one of my childhood classics. Thank you again Hinterland for working hard to create such a masterpiece. Goodluck, stay safe and stay warm out there in the Quiet Apocalypse. 

[Ice Hole]

14 hours ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

Only players of this game could experience a moment like that, face a choice like that, and then worry about why they didn't get to "keep the knife" after.  

Calvin made us do it.   

 

He said it had something to do with "snow-persons".

I killed the bastard too!  The only thing was I just wanted to make him suffer while laughing sardonically.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Ice Hole

[ajb1978]

I pulled the knife out, personally.  And he probably won't survive anyway. That wound was deep, and probably pierced intestine. Untreated, that wound will become septic for sure, leading to a slow tortured decline in health, and a miserable end.

So there's a rebranding on the moral dilemma.  Push the knife in and grant a quick death, or pull it out and let him suffer. 

Edited December 20, 2018 by ajb1978

[eric4x4]

I just want to know why they chose to make the knife inert after the fact.

I really could have used that knife.

[ajb1978]

I do hope this paves the way for more "moral dilemmas" like that in the future.  Like in the old trailer, where you don't see it happen but it's heavily implied that Will killed someone with a hatchet.  Maybe being in that specific situation and having to make a choice completely in a vacuum whether or not to intervene.

And generally, I like when these kinds of decisions affect the game, but not too much.  Like avoiding any of this "oh you got the bad ending because you didn't save so and so".  Just like...slightly different paths.  For example, spare the prisoner, he eventually makes his way to the coastal highway, takes the supplies in the abandoned lookout, and places mountaineering ropes that offer a shortcut down from the lookout.  Kill him, and those ropes aren't placed, but then the supplies remain in the lookout instead.  Either way has an effect on the game, but neither is really a reward or punishment for making your choice.

[Nervous Pete]

Interesting reading people's thoughts on the Hobbs situation. 

I don't think you saved him even if you pulled the knife out, and I think MacKenzie knows that he's a dead man either way. It's more about granting him his wish to help relieve the pain a little and die on his own terms. I'd be very surprised if we met him down the line - though not impossible, who knows if there wasn't a fellow prisoner who circled back and helped him? 

I pulled the knife out. Funny thing is, there's the hint that both he and his fellow inmates didn't deliberately kill the townsfolk. They just locked them in the church. Then came the sparks, the fittings and the wires catching fire. They didn't start the fire. It was always b - no, wait. I mean, the lights in the sky did it. Hobbs didn't feel like risking his neck to try and get them out, but I like to think a couple of the other inmates at least tried. Hobbs was just indulging in a  dose of gallows humour, finding a small shred of fun in baiting another man before his death. And yet, Hobbs also admits that Astrid might have survived, and there's a hint of rueful admiration for her stand. Is Hobbs a murdering psychopath? Most certainly. Did he cackle like a Batman villain as he burnt the villagers alive deliberately? I somehow doubt it.

Personally I'm kind of glad we didn't keep the knife, it would have added too much of a reward game mechanic as it were for something which I purely enjoyed a really well done story beat, though perhaps I would have had MacKenzie drop the knife and with a note of disgust say that it made him want to wash his hands, or something. Even then though people would want to pick up the knife, so... yeah. 

I didn't return to the farmhouse. I suspected he might still be alive and I didn't want to break my own immersion as I assumed he'd die within a day or two at most. Playing the Long Dark for me is partly making your own story in how you do things, and it seemed right for MacKenzie to have no desire to return to that place. I also put down a can-opener next to Grey Mother and some tins next to fire, a stack of wood by the couch and matches within easy reach. In the kitchen everything was piled and sorted for her. I doubt she'll survive winter, though I tried to give her everything I could find, but maybe MacKenzie believes. 

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by Nervous Pete

[Ice Hole]

33 minutes ago, Nervous Pete said:

also put down a can-opener next to Grey Mother and some tins next to fire, a stack of wood by the couch and matches within easy reach. In the kitchen everything was piled and sorted for her. I doubt she'll survive winter, though I tried to give her everything I could find

I wanted to bring up the comfy chair for her.  That wooden chair is not the most comfortable.

[TheEldritchGod]

1 hour ago, Nervous Pete said:

Funny thing is, there's the hint that both he and his fellow inmates didn't deliberately kill the townsfolk. They just locked them in the church. Then came the sparks, the fittings and the wires catching fire. They didn't start the fire. It was always b - no, wait. I mean, the lights in the sky did it.

 

The Quonset Manager knows who set the fire. It was Trombley. It is always Trombley.

[CeeBod]

I enjoyed the addition, but I have to admit that I did make my decision on the assumption that if I spared him I'd also get to keep the knife! 

[Chrysoprace]

Like many here, I pulled the knife, and imagine my surprise when I didn't get a knife. I'm explaining it in my head as the knife being at really low condition and pulling it broke it, but it really broke immersion. 

A few relatively easy solutions:
-change the knife to a screwdriver
-change the knife model so it is visibly damaged or broken
-give the player a pathetically low condition knife

[MueckE]

I don't want to be rude here, but folks please! If you think in that situation like "i want this knife" - then actually you are a psychopath. That is exactly how someone without empathy or any kind of moral would think  (a psychopath)..

However you've decided, don't base that decision on getting the knife!

[Anarchyantz]

I am glad this was in there, in the back of my head there was a voice saying "Hobbs will remember that" in a tell tale walking dead way.

I dont think they intended to nor set fire to the school despite what he implies to start with, as he is delirious from shock and blood loss by then and cannot feel below his waist. With that injury he wont live the night unless gets to a hospital. Then when he says they locked them in and it was the Aurora caused a spark which lead to the fire regardless how quick he didn't help anyone. Avenging Angel I was called, my vengeance was due to him stating they played and toyed with Astrid like a cat playing with a mouse and "only cut her a bit". A bit? enough for her to be able to write in BIG letters in her own blood before escaping.

Bunch of dangerous convicts with a woman, yeah I know what's coming next, we know what you lot also tried to do to the Grey Mother, you can see how many times she had to shoot by the bullet holes and at least got one of them. If he let Hobbs live, as Will said they would probably go back to the Grey Mother now she has full food and fuel (I also did the extra bit) and probably put her to the torch. Do I feel bad, no but I feel Will was justified given the circumstances and no help coming. If help could be obtained then perhaps not. 

[cullam]

To be clear, I don't mean that I made my choice based on keeping the knife. No way. This was an incredible story moment, and I killed him, without hesitation. Not for mechanical reasons, but because I was angry that he'd chased Astrid in the storm, that he'd hurt her, that he'd let those people burn, that he'd laughed, and that he'd gone after the one person I've found and connected with here. And I was beautifully caught up in that story moment. Then as soon as it ended, my mind wen straight to game mechanics, going "Hey, that's a super useful item, using the same art as it usually uses. I can use this!". I think that had the item been the mentioned screw driver, we wouldn't have mentally jumped right back into game-think, and would have stayed in the story moment. 
Sorry if I'm coming off as negative here. I loved this point in the story, and was only trying to make a comment on a minor oddity, as I (and apparently other people) experienced it. 

[Ice Hole]

2 hours ago, Anarchyantz said:

"only cut her a bit". A bit? enough for her to be able to write in BIG letters in her own blood before escaping.

Who said that was her blood?

 

 

Did Dodgeball reference the Simpsons?  This is first season and the Dodgeball movie came out in 2004.

 

[hozz1235]

On 12/19/2018 at 9:41 PM, Raphael van Lierop said:

Only players of this game could experience a moment like that, face a choice like that, and then worry about why they didn't get to "keep the knife" after.  

That was my dominant thought, which is why I pulled it. 

[hozz1235]

6 hours ago, MueckE said:

I don't want to be rude here, but folks please! If you think in that situation like "i want this knife" - then actually you are a psychopath. That is exactly how someone without empathy or any kind of moral would think  (a psychopath)..

However you've decided, don't base that decision on getting the knife!

Hmm...getting labelled a psychpath or obtaining a tool that may save my life...hmm...tough choice.