discussion Bear Spear (hype?)

[ThePancakeLady]

Okay, since the thread I posted this in got locked, I am reposting it here as a new discussion topic. I did search, and found a number of threads that had mentions of the Bear Spear, but I did not find any dedicated to the new item we will be getting Soon­­™. So...

(edited to remove any references to the locked thread...)

 

Okay... I am  also interested in what folks think the Bear Spear will be like? 

We have limited info from the Dev Diaries it has been shown and mentioned in. A few still shots, which can be deceptive in conveying size, construction, and how exactly our characters will use it.

Do you think the Bear Spear will be *massive*, and only used as a "traditional" Bear Spear would be? Planted in the ground, for a rushing animal to impale itself on? Will it be too heavy to be thrown and used as a ranged weapon? Will it be smaller, still sturdy enough to be planted, but also thrown or used to **stabby** stabby** a bear or moose or wolf? Or a deer or poor Bunny FooFoo? Will it also act as a tool, like the hatchet, and allow us to open ice holes with it, since every other *weapon* we have also has 1 or more uses as a tool? What will the recipe be? Will we be able to pick up branches to be able to make it? Meaning a new mechanic to allow branches to be carried, instead of only broken down on spot? (I can't see making it from sticks, that seems a bit far-fetched, and making it from chunks of fir or cedar seems implausible too. Making the shaft or shafts from a split limb... perhaps? Long process, new mechanic needed to allow harvesting rough shafts instead of chunks...). 

Curious what others think it will be like, or what they hope it will be like. The more I think about it, I see that adding the spear may have been much more complex in the sense of coding it and working with what Unity and the game itself allow, than I, and possibly others, may have thought.

I am personally hoping for a large, but not massive spear, that can be planted and used to impale, but can also be used to stab or slash, but not thrown, or only thrown very short distances, with a great chance of not causing serious injury (bounces off or misses quite often) if thrown. I am hoping it has more than one use as a tool as well. Breaking the ice to fish, either in a fishing hut, or... a hole in a pond in the wild, or off the shore in DP (maps where there is large ice, but no fishing huts). Chance of breaking or losing the spear down the hole, but a chance to open a fishing hole if you are desperate for sushi. I think picking up and carrying branches and using a branch to make the shaft makes more sense.

I am really interested to see how they pulled this off, and how it will go over with a wide variety of players. 

 

Thoughts?

[BESt]

I believe it will replace the rifle in story mode. And I am also hyped about it!

[hozz1235]

I'm guessing it will be found (similar to a rifle) and not crafted.  Size?  I would think the weight would be comparable to a rifle.  Usage? I'm guessing stabbing (similar to a knife) because planting would introduce a new animation.  I believe it is simply something to fight back with instead of standing there getting pummeled (as is now).

[BESt]

1 hour ago, BESt said:

I believe it will replace the rifle in story mode. And I am also hyped about it!

As far as the bear spear is concerned, I believe that it will be crafted from an full iron rod or partially made from maple or birch saplings, with an iron shaft. I think it will be forged and it will have the same size as a rifle, and maybe the same weight. If it is so, then I consider that it will be more of a defensive weapon in wolf and bear struggle. But it would be cool to be more than that...

[ThePancakeLady]

2 hours ago, BESt said:

As far as the bear spear is concerned, I believe that it will be crafted from an full iron rod or partially made from maple or birch saplings, with an iron shaft. I think it will be forged and it will have the same size as a rifle, and maybe the same weight. If it is so, then I consider that it will be more of a defensive weapon in wolf and bear struggle. But it would be cool to be more than that...

ZInteresting. I never considered it as a defensive-only weapon. But, if it has a second use as a walking stick... that could be useful. ^^

 

2 hours ago, hozz1235 said:

I'm guessing it will be found (similar to a rifle) and not crafted.  Size?  I would think the weight would be comparable to a rifle.  Usage? I'm guessing stabbing (similar to a knife) because planting would introduce a new animation.  I believe it is simply something to fight back with instead of standing there getting pummeled (as is now).

Indeed, having the option to plant it as a bear charges, or get one good *stabby* in would feel better than just being mauled without even trying to kick Old Grumpy in the gut... or lower. 
The outcome may be the same for our characters, but the possibility of a dead bear during or after the mauling kind of feels like "sweet revenge". 

[hoppyfrog324]

If it works like a traditional bear spear, I'm wondering how effective it'll be on different-sized animals like wolves and moose. 

[fauxjargon]

My guess:  Same mechanic as the rifle in the Old Bear hunt.  Click to brace the spear at the right moment as the Old Bear charges you.  If it works, he gets injured and runs, if not he mauls you.

No more mountain goating to a safe spot on the rocks and sniping the bear like a coward .

[Pillock]

2 hours ago, fauxjargon said:

My guess:  Same mechanic as the rifle in the Old Bear hunt.  Click to brace the spear at the right moment as the Old Bear charges you.  If it works, he gets injured and runs, if not he mauls you.

No more mountain goating to a safe spot on the rocks and sniping the bear like a coward .

I like the idea of that! It'd make for an exciting set piece moment in the story. 

I'm interested to know what they've done in the Redux regarding the mission to take Jeramiah's broken rifle to the workshop to fix. It bugged the hell out of me that you weren't allowed to use this rifle on your way back. I had a working rifle, I had ammo, I came across a bear on the railway tracks in Forlorn Muskeg, and I couldn't use the rifle to try and see it off. It just felt ridiculous. 

[fauxjargon]

1 hour ago, Pillock said:

I like the idea of that! It'd make for an exciting set piece moment in the story. 

I'm interested to know what they've done in the Redux regarding the mission to take Jeramiah's broken rifle to the workshop to fix. It bugged the hell out of me that you weren't allowed to use this rifle on your way back. I had a working rifle, I had ammo, I came across a bear on the railway tracks in Forlorn Muskeg, and I couldn't use the rifle to try and see it off. It just felt ridiculous. 

I could be wrong - maybe the Old Bear hunt part of Episode 2 is the same as before and the spear is for Episode 3.  I just hope the spear is in Interloper so I don't lose as many arrowheads killing bears!

[Pillock]

9 minutes ago, fauxjargon said:

I could be wrong - maybe the Old Bear hunt part of Episode 2 is the same as before and the spear is for Episode 3.  I just hope the spear is in Interloper so I don't lose as many arrowheads killing bears!

My guess is that it'll either be a forge-crafted item, requiring a LOT of resources and time, or else it'll be a fairly rare loot-only find.

If it's not forge-able, my guess is that it won't be available in Interloper, or "Baseline Loot: Low" custom games.

[ThePancakeLady]

26 minutes ago, Pillock said:

My guess is that it'll either be a forge-crafted item, requiring a LOT of resources and time, or else it'll be a fairly rare loot-only find.

If it's not forge-able, my guess is that it won't be available in Interloper, or "Baseline Loot: Low" custom games.

I'm of a similar, but not exactly the same, thought on this. If "found only" it should not be avail able in Loper. But... the hammer is, and it is not a craftable tool, and it is in Loper. I am hoping for the spear to be a rare tool/weapon that can be found, but can also be crafted. In Pilgrim, Voyageur and Stalker, it would work the same way as a bow and arrows, find it or make it, either or. In Loper it would be craftable only. Seems to me that would maintain the balance fairly well. 

 

But I suppose we will all find out, fairly soon.

[fauxjargon]

Did Hinterland actually say that the Bear Spear is in the December update?  Usually Hinterland saves shiny new stuff for story mode and only puts it in Sandbox later.

[ThePancakeLady]

2 hours ago, fauxjargon said:

Did Hinterland actually say that the Bear Spear is in the December update?  Usually Hinterland saves shiny new stuff for story mode and only puts it in Sandbox later.

It's featured pretty prominently in the November Dev Diary, announcing the December update. But I don't see any details on which game mode it will show up in. I suspect Wintermute first. then added to Survival Mode after a short time. But we could get it in both, and possibly in the new Challenge Mode that was mentioned as well. @Raphael van Lierop mentions other surprises if they can get them done in time for the December update for Survival Mode. Not long... we'll find out soon. *twitches*

[Dan_]

On 10/12/2018 at 12:58 PM, fauxjargon said:

My guess:  Same mechanic as the rifle in the Old Bear hunt.  Click to brace the spear at the right moment as the Old Bear charges you.  If it works, he gets injured and runs, if not he mauls you.

No more mountain goating to a safe spot on the rocks and sniping the bear like a coward .

If this is how it turns out I'll be a happy camper. 

I'm guessing you won't find spears in interloper and that they'll demand a good deal of resources to forge and maintain. I wonder if they are going to nerf bleeding a bear with an arrow and make them much like the moose, except that it would obviously bleed if impaled with the spear, that would make bear hunting much more exciting. Also, with RabbitHat® you can engage in bear wrestling more frequently without the crippling fear of freezing ye ole noggin'! Huzzah!

[epower]

I too have mixed emotions when I snipe Ursa from safety.   Setting spear for charge and standing there, that would be an entirely different matter. 

As for availability, it's a better version of a "Point-ed Stick" so I'd imagine it's craftable.   Defense against Fresh Fruit, anyone?  If a rare loot item, perhaps there will be a checkbox in custom settings like we have for the Rifle. 

[fauxjargon]

3 hours ago, Dan_ said:

If this is how it turns out I'll be a happy camper. 

I'm guessing you won't find spears in interloper and that they'll demand a good deal of resources to forge and maintain. I wonder if they are going to nerf bleeding a bear with an arrow and make them much like the moose, except that it would obviously bleed if impaled with the spear, that would make bear hunting much more exciting. Also, with RabbitHat® you can engage in bear wrestling more frequently without the crippling fear of freezing ye ole noggin'! Huzzah!

Right now if you're a sneaky bugger you can shoot a bear without any risk of losing arrowheads using this one simple trick:
1) Shoot bunnies until your arrow is about to break

2) Shoot the bear with your almost-broken arrow from a spot the bear can't get to - the arrow will bounce off but still bleed the bear

3) Go inside, make some coffee, read a book, patch up your gear

4) Go find a frozen bear somewhere and your arrow sitting where you shot the bear.

[Ice Hole]

When I read the title i thought it was
Bear Spray Hype
 

c'mon bunch of meanies don't they know

Bear Lives Matter

 

[Dan_]

5 hours ago, fauxjargon said:

Right now if you're a sneaky bugger you can shoot a bear without any risk of losing arrowheads using this one simple trick:
1) Shoot bunnies until your arrow is about to break

2) Shoot the bear with your almost-broken arrow from a spot the bear can't get to - the arrow will bounce off but still bleed the bear

3) Go inside, make some coffee, read a book, patch up your gear

4) Go find a frozen bear somewhere and your arrow sitting where you shot the bear.

That's actually a pretty smart use of game mechanics, thanks!

But my comment was geared towards actually having a challenge when bear hunting, as opposed to goating down a ledge and taking a safe shot. Don't get me wrong, I'm  a (pretend)bowman by heart but dropping a big bear with a no recurve, speedily crafted and basic bow in one shot is kinda OP, albeit hella fun to impersonate canadian Legolas. 

I do not mind losing arrows, there is just too much metal laying around without use and it gives me reason to make another trip to the forge and two week netflix and chill at that region. I find it has been harder to lose them lately because I do straight up headshots, so even if I hit the back I can access the arrows before quartering. I usually avoid side shots when I want to preserve arrowheads because they might not pop up when the kill is laying on the shot side, not that I always get the luxury of choice of course!  

Actually, now that you mention it the last arrow vanishing bug was introduced with Vigilant Flame ( HRV update ) and quickly fixed afterwards, hopefully it doesn't happen this time around but if you cherish your arrow points be wary of it. 

[Raphael van Lierop]

On 2018-12-11 at 6:20 PM, ThePancakeLady said:

It's featured pretty prominently in the November Dev Diary, announcing the December update. But I don't see any details on which game mode it will show up in. I suspect Wintermute first. then added to Survival Mode after a short time. But we could get it in both, and possibly in the new Challenge Mode that was mentioned as well. @Raphael van Lierop mentions other surprises if they can get them done in time for the December update for Survival Mode. Not long... we'll find out soon. *twitches*

Bear Spear is a big part of Episode Two Redux. That is where it will first appear.

The Bear Spear will be added to Survival Mode in the next update.

[TheHunter280]

Personally I think the bear spear would be a 7 ft (2.1m) spear with a spear head focused on throws rather than fending off, because it would be quite game breaking to have a tool that stop and bleed out easily that over agressive wildlife and IRL they really are made to make big damage. It will have a much shorter range and speed to the bow but will inflict more bleed damage

The whole spear would be craftable only, since spear hunting is not popular anymore by our days, it will cost 5 scrap metal and one shaft from a big limb of cedar with a total of 8 hours of work to make one and weight a total of 3 kg. I would prefer that the head will have to be sharpened and have a shaft condition rather than only one type of maintenance

Fending off with the spear you will have to point it and continue to threaten to the attacker, throwing it will let you open to attack and having them impaled doesn't always mean they won't do a last attack. Left click for stab and throw (only possible when aiming), Right click for aiming

When throwing you will have to aim first and it's possible to do it crouched but you will have to throw it standing. You can throw further and do more damage if you are running but it won't be worthwhile

You can only carry one in your hand until you make a spear bag out of a Bear/Moose hide and can hold up to 3 spears, I mean can you wear one ?

 

PS : Oh boy I did let myself carrying out

[Dan_]

3 hours ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

Bear Spear is a big part of Episode Two Redux. That is where it will first appear.

The Bear Spear will be added to Survival Mode in the next update.

Excellent, so we get to experience it by next week and enjoy redux while wearing freshly sewn rabbit caps. Nothing personal against the bunnyfolk tho. 

 

[BESt]

6 hours ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

Bear Spear is a big part of Episode Two Redux. That is where it will first appear.

The Bear Spear will be added to Survival Mode in the next update.

Soon glad that my intuition was right! Can't wait!

[Raphael van Lierop]

8 hours ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

Bear Spear is a big part of Episode Two Redux. That is where it will first appear.

The Bear Spear will be added to Survival Mode in the next update.

To be 100% clear -- I mean the Bear Spear will be added to Survival Mode in the next update...after Redux. 

[Mroz4k]

10 hours ago, TheHunter280 said:

focused on throws rather than fending off, because it would be quite game breaking to have a tool that stop and bleed out easily that over agressive wildlife

2

Actually, I would not say so. I think its pretty fair, in fact. Consider the fact that it is a defensive weapon - I dont think it would work the same way as tools do during wolf attacks, when you have to quickly select it - in order to trigger it, you would have to be holding the spear in your hands to begin with. That means you cant be holding a rifle or a bow, which is what most people would have in their hands if they were hunting. And we all know that switching over in between weapons is pretty slow process. So it would be a matter of choice - do I have it in my hands to defend myself with, or do I have in my hands another weapon, with which I can inflict the first strike?

I would also imagine that the bear spear, used in defense, would not be a certainty - but rather a chance, similar to critical strikes.

Lets take a look at the picture we have seen.

That is NOT a throwable spear, also known as javelin. Javelins are short, have very thin, mediocre long shaft, and a very small spearhead, very similar in appearance to the arrowhead, in fact, you could easily call them oversized arrows, without the wings at the end. It has to be light enough so it can be thrown at a medium distance, and during the air time, gather up the speed to penetrate the body of an animal. Additionally, you want it to bury as deep as it could. Which would make those two side spikes contraproductive.

Pike, which is what people suggested before, is a very heavy, long type of spear used to stop mounted attacks in the future. Problem with using that against a bear is that a bear is a predator, unlike horses. You impaled a horse, then the horse couldnt really harm you anymore. A wounded bear, on the other hand - would be very dangerous. If the pike allowed the impaled bear to reach the holder, it would be a very painful death, by an angry, wounded bear. 

I imagine the spikes there would serve the purpose of having a bear, impale himself on the spear, but be stopped, or slowed, by those spikes - so that the wounded bear would not reach onto the person, holding the spear. This seems like a multi purpose spear, used for fending off an animal. If the survivor crouched and dug it into the ground, the bear should be stopped from the charge, but would not reach the player thanks to the two spikes there that would stop it.

Of course those are all just my assumptions based on the design of the spear. It could, in fact, be throwable, too - but not very far. I do hope that the person, designing it, did a research on spears first, else it could really end up being immersion breaking. I would hate to see this obviously not a throwing spear being the game´s version of javelin.

 

[Senauer]

@Mroz4k, I agree with your approach there. My guess is also that it will not be throwable, because of the picture that we got but also because its basic design concept. You are right, it ought to be used in a defensive stance similar to how pikes were used against cavalry in ancient warfare.

The idea behind the bear spear is to impale the animal taking advantage of its weight and momentum during its attack. A very good example can be seen at the movie “The Edge” (Anthony Hopkins and Alec Baldwin), which is one of my favourite survival movies, by the way. Also, there is a very good quote from the film that can be seen sometimes on screen after launching a fresh TLD survival game.

The two small “spikes” would indeed stop the bear from sliding down the spear while impaled, thus preventing it from reaching the hunter, as even mortally wounded the bear would still suppose a threat until its last breath.