AlexandraRussia

Armor-piercing Ammo

39 posts in this topic

Ok, our point likely was:
1) why should a rural hunting-oriented community have armour piercing bullets?
2) maybe bears should be made tougher without resorting to the "either you have special bullets or you're eaten" which sounds quite puzzleadventurish.

Bears are easy bleeders, one good hit is a sure kill. Maybe they should be given a chance to have no bleedout even with an arrow stuck somewhere, or hit by a bullet. That would explain that giant man-eating hedgehog called Old Bear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/3/2018 at 3:14 PM, Mroz4k said:

Dont want to overstep my bounds, but if I can offer a piece of advice - joking is fine, but be really careful not to turn into a jerk. Right now you are fairly close to riddiculing someone for their idea, and that is a no go. The people here take the community well-being very seriously. Trust me - I was an ass to everyone once, earned me a 9 month long ban - and it is only at grace of the Hinterland I have been allowed to return.

Now I understand gun discussion aren't popular with everyone (I am myself one of those people) but even the things we might dislike still deserve to be heard and discussed. And who knows? Maybe something interesting will come out of it.

9 months seems excessive, the standard I have observed on other boards is that if you do enough to warrant a multi-month ban, you warrant being IP banned.

For these boards though my impression has been that most of the long term posters are adults, adults with the capacity for change. Throughout the years on other boards I have run into some truly dysfunctional people, I feel like I don't have to worry about that here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Doc Feral said:

Ok, our point likely was:
1) why should a rural hunting-oriented community have armour piercing bullets?
2) maybe bears should be made tougher without resorting to the "either you have special bullets or you're eaten" which sounds quite puzzleadventurish.

Bears are easy bleeders, one good hit is a sure kill. Maybe they should be given a chance to have no bleedout even with an arrow stuck somewhere, or hit by a bullet. That would explain that giant man-eating hedgehog called Old Bear.

The issue here is that the hunting rifle is based off an old military surplus rifle, while you can find appropriate hunting ammo at a Canadian Cabelas in .303, I don't think they ship to Great Bear Island :P FMJ in this context may as well result in wounds similar to a formal AP round as well.

The implication here being that most rural folks would be budget minded and that mindset would extend to their ammo supply, surplus ammo (Which in this case is almost always going to be FMJ) is almost always going to be cheaper than new production ammo all things being equal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing with bears is that you will have a hard time killing them instantly - and that's a good thing. Bears are a mountain of food with one of the most precious resources in the game. Killing a bear will feed you for weeks and killing two clothe you for months. A little bit of effort should be part of the process. And all it takes is to hide properly at a distance, hit your shot, and track it. The moose really is harder. Hammering 3-4 shots into a moose without getting run over is kinda a risky thing. But again ..... high risk, high reward. If killing moose or bears didn't have a serious possible blowback .... they'd be overpowered. 

I guess was the OP actually wants is more like the shotgun @Mroz4kmentioned. But low accuracy, short range, one bullet, deterrent-focussed .... we kinda have that already with the flare gun, and it's light. Who would bring a 3-4 kilogram shotgun to do the same job? I don't know.

I always ask myself when it comes to such propositions: does the amount of added opportunity/fun/immersion/functionality/amazingness justify the amount of added complexity while preserving balance. And in this case I kinda feel like: no. You have the replenishable survivor's option that is hard to learn, but actually very effective when you know your way around it: the bow. You have the heavy and ammunition-gated but powerful and easy-to-use range and accuracy king: the rifle. And you have the light but scarce ultimate defensive option: the flare gun. I really don't see a niche to be filled by a shotgun, and - not even discussing if armor piercing ammunition even makes sense here - don't feel like the rifle needs more firepower than it already has.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, jeffpeng said:

@Mroz4k

I always ask myself when it comes to such propositions: does the amount of added opportunity/fun/immersion/functionality/amazingness justify the amount of added complexity while preserving balance. And in this case I kinda feel like: no. You have the replenishable survivor's option that is hard to learn, but actually very effective when you know your way around it: the bow. You have the heavy and ammunition-gated but powerful and easy-to-use range and accuracy king: the rifle. And you have the light but scarce ultimate defensive option: the flare gun. I really don't see a niche to be filled by a shotgun, and - not even discussing if armor piercing ammunition even makes sense here - don't feel like the rifle needs more firepower than it already has.

There's been an "ask" before to use shotguns for huntable birds, the easy example to bring up here is ptarmigan.

You can still maintain the parameters you suggested, just restrict the shotgun to just birdshot, it's great for taking out birds, but it won't be lethal to wolves and bears (and moose) might just flat out not be affected by it. I was hit by birdshot ricochet before and it didn't even cause bleeding nor did it leave a bruise, a direct hit to something much larger than me like a bear or moose is probably going to just anger it.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5. 12. 2018 at 10:42 AM, jeffpeng said:

I always ask myself when it comes to such propositions: does the amount of added opportunity/fun/immersion/functionality/amazingness justify the amount of added complexity while preserving balance. And in this case I kinda feel like: no. You have the replenishable survivor's option that is hard to learn, but actually very effective when you know your way around it: the bow. You have the heavy and ammunition-gated but powerful and easy-to-use range and accuracy king: the rifle. And you have the light but scarce ultimate defensive option: the flare gun. I really don't see a niche to be filled by a shotgun, and - not even discussing if armor piercing ammunition even makes sense here - don't feel like the rifle needs more firepower than it already has.

Nah, flare gun is for scaring animals. If they add revolver, flare gun should loose killing potential. Shooting wolves with pathetic flares gives me tumors of cancer.

Flare gun: scare

Revolver: Selfdefence

Shotgun: Selfdefence/shortrange hunting

Rifle: Long range accurate hunting

 

I dont get it, why people insist on present gun play. Flare gun certainly shouldnt selfdefence tool with killing potential.

Edited by Moll

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Flares are dangerous, my friend. Fired as projectiles at short range, when their ballistics are at their maximum acceleration, these can be lethal. Any object traveling at high velocity is a hazardous force.

One who scoffs at a "harmless" nerf gun, while gawking down the barrel, is a fart away from losing an eye. Hopefully, individuals of this imbecility never gain possession of a firearm. Wisdom, indeed.

Edited by Frosted Werewolf
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Moll said:

Flare gun certainly shouldnt selfdefence tool with killing potential.

But they are. Just the blunt force trauma can kill you. And if you get burned by an already ignited flare shell you are facing ~1500°C. That will not burn you, it will melt you and then evaporate you. Please do not believe that flare guns are harmless sparklers you can shoot.

The fact that you have to have a ridiculously close (wolf) or big (bear) target to use them and that they are super rare is enough to balance their usefulness.

Edited by jeffpeng

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, jeffpeng said:

But they are. Just the blunt force trauma can kill you. And if you get burned by an already ignited flare shell you are facing ~1500°C. That will not burn you, it will melt you and then evaporate you. Please do not believe that flare guns are harmless sparklers you can shoot.

The fact that you have to have a ridiculously close (wolf) or big (bear) target to use them and that they are super rare is enough to balance their usefulness.

I've used the flare gun against wolves and bear before, how effective is it on moose?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, deathbydanish said:

I've used the flare gun against wolves and bear before, how effective is it on moose?

 

Actually not very. I've heard people say they one-shot moose with it,  but the only time I tried - actually for fun - I unloaded 5 shells on the same moose in a short time, I think I hit all of them .... moose didn't care.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, jeffpeng said:

Actually not very. I've heard people say they one-shot moose with it,  but the only time I tried - actually for fun - I unloaded 5 shells on the same moose in a short time, I think I hit all of them .... moose didn't care.

lol I feel like your icon is very appropriate for this post

moose.thumb.png.46b82efb5389457e0a9920b3

I'd like to jokingly propose, that any animal that you don't successfully kill, will a.) have persistent scars or arrows (as in your icon) b.) become twice as hard to kill, and c.) be able to "sense" you coming :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, deathbydanish said:

ol I feel like your icon is very appropriate for this post

That picture is from a miracle one-shot-kill shooting halfway across the field at Trapper's and hitting the moose right in the nose :D

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, jeffpeng said:

That picture is from a miracle one-shot-kill shooting halfway across the field at Trapper's and hitting the moose right in the nose :D

RNGesus was with you that day, I have broken many an arrow against just the lowly deer. I somehow hit one in the knee, more than once, he still kept running and I was out of stamina. Then there are the countless others where I thought I had a solid hit only to have the arrow bounce off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now