Armor-piercing Ammo

[AlexandraRussia]

Hello again.
Here in the game there are cartridges for the Gun. but they are suitable only for deer and wolves.
Because those skin is thin.
But on the moose and the Bears would go only special armor-piercing cartridges.
Since the bears and moose skin is thick.
Personally, I tried to kill Elk a few hours yesterday.
It took a lot of bullets, but still killed.
Thanks again for the game.

[Johnny5X]

You hunt Elk?!!, man that so cool.

[StrayCat]

In fact, armor piercing ammo is way less effective at killing an animal, due to its low stopping power. But I can't understand what you want. Is it :

1) You want more powerful bullets to have mooses and bears drop dead with 1 bullet ?

2) You consider that the normal bullets are too powerful and should not be able to kill mooses and bears, so you have to find "special bullets" to have a chance to kill them ?

[UTC-10]

In two sandboxes where I have killed a moose. In one it took two shots. In the other it took five (assuming I did not miss any shots).  It sounds like the OP was a bit disappointed in the performance of the 303 ammunition and wants to get "better" ammunition. For the purposes of the game and with the animal model used, different bullet types would [currently] make no difference in hunting. You get a kill, a bleedout (except for moose), or a trivial hit (its not going to die). 

[Kendov]

op probably did not properly use the kill zones, because the heart area behind the front legs is actually more effective than a headshot or anywhere else, I have no idea how else you'd require "a lot of bullets" to kill anything. Ofc it's difficult if you have no idea of how to kill an animal, but the that's a layer8 problem.

[Frosted Werewolf]

An experienced, efficient, and effective hunter should be capable of taking down any wild game included in The Long Dark with the ammunition provided.

[DarKube]

I do not see the piercing-bullet utility, bears and mooses is hard to kill it's normal !

[Mroz4k]

There are no ammo types in the game right now. Adding them would mean changes in the code would have to be made. And I don't think the game needs to be more complicated this way. Also, armor piercing bullets are not designed for hunting animals, but for penetrating through hard surfaces. Hide, even if it is thick, is still considered a soft tissue due to its consistency. Armor penetrating bullets would not help, nor would they make any sense to even be located at Great Bear.

I dont get it why people want to add more guns or rework guns more. Guns are meant to be only a small part of the game - it is not a long-term solution and the biggest need in TLD sandbox right now is more content to make the late-game more interesting.

[DarKube]

I agree Mroz4K said

[Frosted Werewolf]

Hunting is not military combat. Wildlife does not wear armor, therefore armor piercing ammunition is irrelevant. Applying axiomatic logic, the use of such munitions is equally idiosyncratic and asinine.

[deathbydanish]

That .303 the hunting rifle uses is pretty versatile, IRL it has been suitable for hunting all the animals present in the game.

If you were suggesting escalation to something with more power, the proper expectation would've been to a big game rifle/caliber meant to hunt thick skinned animals that can hurt/kill you if they charge you.

[Willy Pete]

As said before, armor-piercing ammunition loses stopping power in exchange for penetration. If you shot a bear or moose with AP ammunition, it would likely pass straight through the animal (depending on the cartridge and where the bullet hit, of course), and do very little damage. Soft point or other more specialized ammunition designed to expand on impact and put maximum energy into the target would be far more effective, if anything you'd want the opposite of AP ammunition: heavier, softer bullets. There's a reason FMJ and other lighter and harder bullet types are often banned from use when hunting (at least in the USA).

[Moll]

Correct, i would add that calibers like .303 were never available in AP version, especailly when standart FMJ version has very high penetration ability against tissue.

Here in Europe anything except FMJ or expansive projectiles (HP, JSP, ...) are illegal for civilian use, no matter what, so AP is out of aim for civilian shooters. And if you dont want to penetrate steel on concrete,  allowed version are better and cheaper.

For higher killing potential i suggested a differet gun, like hunting rifle in magnum calibre (.338 Win mag etc), but it brings more ammo variants for rifles and its simplier to hit a bear with more rounds of standart .303 ammo.

Simply solution is to improve hitbox game mechanic to better animal behaviour after shot.

[odizzido]

by 303 I assume you guys mean 7.62x51? If you want something a bit beefier 7.92x57 seems like it would be a good choice? It exists, could be fired from an older rifle, and has 60% more energy.

[Blueshy]

3 hours ago, odizzido said:

by 303 I assume you guys mean 7.62x51? If you want something a bit beefier 7.92x57 seems like it would be a good choice? It exists, could be fired from an older rifle, and has 60% more energy.

No, the enfield in the game uses .303 Brittish ammunition which is 7.7x56R. The truth is that, realistically, any animal shot by this cartridge would die very quickly. No moose in real life could take 5 shots to the body from this round and still be standing, most bears would drop in a single shot, wolves would die instantly almost certainly, and the bunnies would literally explode in a pink mist. The game makes embellishments and changes for the sake of gameplay and balance.

[Frosted Werewolf]

"The game makes embellishments and changes for the sake of gameplay and balance."

So, in theory, this thread is pointless. Let's just replace the rifle with a slingshot that fires bazooka rockets and call it a day! (Irreverent Sarcasm.)

[Khan_Drichthyes]

22 minutes ago, Frosted Werewolf said:

Let's just replace the rifle with a slingshot that fires bazooka rockets and call it a day! (Irreverent Sarcasm.)

A Moose firing bazooka has been suggested, if I recall. 

[stratvox]

Oh come now, a moose firing bazooka is simply absurd; who could pick it up and aim it? Now a bazooka firing rabid weasels... that at least is in the realm of plausibility, not like that stopid moose bazooka idea....

 

[Doc Feral]

27 minutes ago, Khan_Drichthyes said:

A Moose firing bazooka has been suggested, if I recall. 

And I'm proud of having at some point suggested craftable blunderbuss and trebuchet, not to mention the immensely useful molotov cocktail which would 99,7% of the times bounce off bears without breaking.

[Blueshy]

1 hour ago, Frosted Werewolf said:

So, in theory, this thread is pointless. Let's just replace the rifle with a slingshot that fires bazooka rockets and call it a day! (Irreverent Sarcasm.)

No, the point is that they will only implement changes that add novelty to the gameplay. Adding things simply because they are realistic does not mean that the game will be necessarily more enjoyable. Sometimes simple is better.

[Khan_Drichthyes]

26 minutes ago, Doc Feral said:

not to mention the immensely useful molotov cocktail which would 99,7% of the times bounce off bears without breaking.

I remember that one.

[Frosted Werewolf]

Remember to bring your favorite hunting howitzers, folks! The bolt action rifle only fires the meager .303 round and that calibre just won't cut it! 

[Mroz4k]

Just like with all gun debates, I suggest that rather then discussing ammo types, calibers and various guns, I suggest you focus more on what this type of weapon bring to the game. Like, suggestion of a shotgun, for example, could make sense - without arguing if 12 or 20 gauge, pump action or combat shotgun, focus on what its use would be. For example, shotgun could be rather heavy 1 or 2 shooter which deters wildlife, even bears, from charging the player - meaning it would be crap at medium distance or further, but at short distance it would stop even a bear charge. High damage, low bleeding, no bleeding to bear or moose - high crit chance, very crappy accuracy.

Suggestions like these make sense - figuring out the model and caliber, well that is just gravy.

[Mroz4k]

Just now, Frosted Werewolf said:

Remember to bring your favorite hunting howitzers, folks! The bolt action rifle only fires the meager .303 round and that calibre just won't cut it! 

Dont want to overstep my bounds, but if I can offer a piece of advice - joking is fine, but be really careful not to turn into a jerk. Right now you are fairly close to riddiculing someone for their idea, and that is a no go. The people here take the community well-being very seriously. Trust me - I was an ass to everyone once, earned me a 9 month long ban - and it is only at grace of the Hinterland I have been allowed to return.

Now I understand gun discussion aren't popular with everyone (I am myself one of those people) but even the things we might dislike still deserve to be heard and discussed. And who knows? Maybe something interesting will come out of it.

[Frosted Werewolf]

I was just having a little bit of fun with the man. I believe all ideas should be respected, and I'll dial it back a notch. Sorry to anyone I may have offended.