Birch bark oil (black oil) - a type of lantern fuel (alternative)

[Mroz4k]

Hello, fellow forum members!

Those of you who have been around the forums for over a year and half might remember an old suggestion I made, about a way to turn birch bark into lantern fuel. (For those interested in the old topic, you can read it here)

This suggestion was before the cooking update, so I decided to create a new thread and update it, with this mechanic in mind.

Birch oil as a TLD alternative source of Lantern fuel

Recipe: Outdoor campfire with a cooking pot would have an option to "make lantern fuel" - it would take 5 birch bark pieces, take 2 hours of cooking, and it would produce 0,2 to 0,3 l of Lantern fuel (depends on what the community considers to be a fair amount, note the poll)

The best thing about it - the process is really simple, so simple it is realistic to attempt in the survival scenario. It would be great for the game because it would give the birch bark another use besides the tinder, which becomes obsolete after Level 3 fire-starting skill is reached.

The poll: There is a poll for the community to determine what amount of lantern oil should be produced from the 5 pieces of birch oil and 2 hour cook time.

Birch oil was used instead of kerosene in the oil-fueled lamps for a long time - some homesteaders use it to this day, because it is simple to make, out of natural resources, making it the perfect lantern fuel source in remote areas. It can be made out of several types of barks that are rich in oil - and birch bark is one of the, if not the richest, of them all. The only notable difference to kerosene is that this birch oil would produce heavy black smoke when burned. Other than that, their properties are highly similar. This is because there is a lot of black "ashes" from the charred bark, floating inside. If you took a filter of some sort and had the black oil seep through it, the resulting oil would be clean and produce next to no smoke at all. The byproduct of this is birch bark, turned into a charcoal. The vapors are a steam at first, the wood gas later - these byproducts are not collected during the process.

Since fish oil can be used as lantern oil, I assume the Storm lanterns work not only on kerosene, but on other oils as well. Filtered birch oil would work without any issue in my opinion, the polluted one should work too, though it would probably sediment the ash inside of the lamp, so frequent maintenance would be required. 

For non believers I will be linking a YouTube tutorial video on how to make said oil, which I linked in the old thread as well:

Any and all comments and critique is welcomed. If this seems unbalanced, please offer your opinion on how to balance it - and lets discuss it. 
I am also creating a new poll on how much lantern fuel should be produced this way.

[SneakySquid]

Great idea.

[DarKube]

I think its great idea too !

I hope to Hinterland add this in TLD !

[Johnny5X]

I've just watched an old episode of ray mears extreme survival series in which he actually does the exact same thing so I had the same thought.

Should definitely be implemented as an additional renewable source of oil since fishing isn't possible at many locations.

And if you want even more variety, you could process it (the bark not the oil) just like reishi mushrooms to make a nice warm tea.

That way you will also have a renewable source of tea so you don't waste the mushrooms and the roses when you need them for their healing abilities and not for the warm-up.

[k0s0ff]

8 hours ago, Johnny5X said:

Я только что наблюдал за старым эпизодом из серии экстремальных выживаемости лучей, в которой он фактически делает то же самое, поэтому у меня была такая же мысль.

Должен определенно быть реализован в качестве дополнительного возобновляемого источника нефти, поскольку промысел во многих местах невозможен.

И если вы хотите еще больше разнообразия, вы можете обработать его (кора не масло), как грибы рейши, чтобы приготовить приятный теплый чай.

Таким образом, у вас также будет возобновляемый источник чая, чтобы вы не тратили впустую грибы и розы, когда вы нуждаетесь в них для своих лечебных способностей, а не для разминки.

Boiling water - should warm you No need to invent a new tea.

[k0s0ff]

Idea super!

it is necessary to add the ability to cut bark from birch.

[Mroz4k]

11 hours ago, Johnny5X said:

And if you want even more variety, you could process it (the bark not the oil) just like reishi mushrooms to make a nice warm tea.

That way you will also have a renewable source of tea so you don't waste the mushrooms and the roses when you need them for their healing abilities and not for the warm-up.

Yea, I have heard of that before, a couple of times, actually. I never tried to make that tea for myself, and have heard that not all birch bark is good for this, but the oils in the bark supposedly make for a decent tea. If the idea to make a renewable source of a tea (something that could be re-heated and used for the warm core bonus) comes up, this would be a great way to add it - since the bark already exists in the game. My idea for a renewable tea resorted to a collection of fir needles which would then be boiled into a tea, rich in Vitamin C.

Gonna have to make a note somewhere that next time I go for a trip into the mountains, that I should try to make a tea out of a birch bark to warm myself up  

 

 

2 hours ago, k0s0ff said:

Boiling water - should warm you No need to invent a new tea.

Hello, and welcome to the forums!  
We discussed the hot water not that long ago. My opinion on it is that it would not be a good idea, for several reasons: For starters, unless you are used to it, drinking hot water is not pleasant at all - I tested it for the kicks and I gotta say, I almost threw up.

Additionally, water is so easy to find - if it did allow the hot core, it would be really, really easy to obtain that buff anywhere. Also, the water is not coded to even make this possible - whenever you boil water, it increases the "water" in your inventory by the amount you boiled. So, you would, for example, add 1l of "hot" water to 2 liters of cold one. But when you create a coffee or tea, that creates a cup of a "new" drink, and this drink can be in two states - hot, or cold. For this to work with water, the water would have to be split into individual water bottles, not be one big amount of drink. And that would just not be practical.

And finally, water is so common. It is easy to get anywhere you have a campfire. With birch bark tea, you would have to find the bark, craft it to prepare the tea extract, and then boil it - the result would be a low caloric tea drink which can be heated, and only adds a bit of heat and the bonus to the table.

Not to even mention we discussed if hot water can even keep a person feeling warm, and the notion is that it wouldn't. Drinking tea means you are drinking some calories, and it is that "meal in liquid" which can keep you warm if you "eat" it warm. Water has next to no calories.

So I think a birch tea would be better than hot water.
 

2 hours ago, k0s0ff said:

Idea super!

it is necessary to add the ability to cut bark from birch.

Thank you! Why do you think it is necessary to add the ability to cut bark from the trees? To me, that sounds like a lot of work for Hinterland team for next to no reward. The birch can already be found under the trees as it spawns, the same way as sticks. I don't really see why it would be necessary to have to cut it off the trees as well if it already "falls" off on its own.

[k0s0ff]

6 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

6 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

Да, я слышал об этом раньше, пару раз, на самом деле. Я никогда не пытался сделать этот чай для себя и слышал, что не все берестяные кора хороши для этого, но масла в коре якобы делают приличный чай. Если идея создать возобновляемый источник чая (что-то, что можно было бы перегревать и использовать для теплового бонуса), это будет отличным способом его добавить - так как кора уже существует в игре. Моя идея для возобновляемого чая прибегла к коллекции пихтовых игл, которые затем вскипятили бы в чай, богатый витаминами C.

Собираюсь что-нибудь сделать, чтобы в следующий раз, когда я отправляюсь в путешествие в горы, я должен попробовать приготовить чай из бересты, чтобы согреться 

 

 

Привет и добро пожаловать на форумы!  
Мы обсуждали эту горячую воду не так давно. Мое мнение по этому поводу заключается в том, что это не будет хорошей идеей по нескольким причинам: для начала, если вы не привыкли к этому, пить горячую воду вообще не нравится - я тестировал ее для пинков, и я должен сказать, что я почти бросил.

Кроме того, вода так легко найти - если бы это позволило горячее ядро, было бы действительно, очень легко получить этот бафф где угодно. Кроме того, вода не закодирована, чтобы даже сделать это возможным - всякий раз, когда вы кипятите воду, она увеличивает «воду» в вашем инвентаре на сумму, которую вы кипятили. Таким образом, вы бы, например, добавили 1 л «горячей» воды до 2 литров холодной. Но когда вы создаете кофе или чай, это создает чашку «нового» напитка, и этот напиток может находиться в двух состояниях - горячем или холодном. Для этого, чтобы работать с водой, вода должна быть разделена на отдельные бутылки с водой, а не на одно большое количество напитка. И это было бы просто непрактично.

И, наконец, вода настолько распространена. Легко добраться в любом месте, где есть костер. С чаем березовой коры вам нужно будет найти кору, обработать ее, чтобы подготовить экстракт чая, а затем кипятить ее - результатом будет низкокалорийный чайный напиток, который можно нагреть, и только добавляет немного тепла и бонуса к столу.

Не говоря уже о том, что мы обсуждали, может ли горячая вода даже удерживать человека в тепле, и это значит, что это не так. Питьевой чай означает, что вы пьете несколько калорий, и именно это «еда в жидкости», которая может держать вас в тепле, если вы «едите» тепло. Вода не имеет калорий.

Поэтому я думаю, что березовый чай будет лучше, чем горячая вода.
 

Спасибо! Почему, по-вашему, необходимо добавить способность разрезать кору с деревьев? Для меня это звучит как большая работа для команды Hinterland для получения вознаграждения. Береза уже можно найти под деревьями, как она появляется, так же, как палки. Я действительно не понимаю, почему нужно было бы отрезать его от деревьев, если он уже «падает» самостоятельно.

 

Water.  Hard to implement. So you can respond to all requests. I think that the entire system preparations water requires engineering. the water is hot when ready and turns into ice with a long stay on the street. Just game developers have to finally determine the game of realism or fiction.

The bark of the birch. Bark doesn't just fall off a tree. It must be either a dead tree or a felled tree. For collection of bark need to spend time resource, the resource of a knife, axe. Birch bark oil extracted from the upper birch bark, low quality is rarely used as a fuel. The main purpose of the processing of the skin, lubricates wheels, medical application. 

I mean, if that's the way water behaves, what's the point of making a realistic use of birch?

And why complicate things. There is such a thing - a long sliver (if translated into English) it was used until the beginning of the XX century ,it was made of wood. Out of a single piece of wood was extracted many of these things. I love the light source. 

 

 

[Mroz4k]

1 hour ago, k0s0ff said:

Water.  Hard to implement. So you can respond to all requests. I think that the entire system preparations water requires engineering. the water is hot when ready and turns into ice with a long stay on the street. Just game developers have to finally determine the game of realism or fiction.

Let's not discuss water on this thread further. We can continue this discussion at the previous topic where it will be relevant.

1 hour ago, k0s0ff said:

Just game developers have to finally determine the game of realism or fiction.

Sorry to disappoint you - the game is not meant to be a realistic interpretation of real-world survival. It is a game - some things in it will be simplified. Some of the things will not be added because they would make the game really easy. Having "hot water" give that bonus would make that bonus very easy to acquire. Problem with that is obvious - it removes the "challenge" out of the game, makes the game easy. The easy game gets boring, fast.

1 hour ago, k0s0ff said:

The bark of the birch. Bark doesn't just fall off a tree. It must be either a dead tree or a felled tree. For collection of bark need to spend time resource, the resource of a knife, axe. Birch bark oil extracted from the upper birch bark, low quality is rarely used as a fuel. The main purpose of the processing of the skin, lubricates wheels, medical application. 

Again, the point here is that TLD is not real life survival simulator. Such a game is impossible to make, actually - because the main point of survival is improvisation - and it is impossible to program a game to allow improvisation, at least in the moment. I never really use knife to gather birch bark - what is the point? You can very easily remove it with your fingers. It also depends on what type of the birch it is, and how old the tree is... and yes, actually, you can find birch bark lying on the ground. Since this is already in the game, I see no reason to change it.
(I know a lot about the birch bark and its uses - I use it as a tinder all the time. Whenever I am in the mountains and come across some, I take a portion of it to keep my tinderbox full. I am holding a piece of it in my hands right now... Yes, there are other uses for birch bark. But again, not all of them will make it into the game)

1 hour ago, k0s0ff said:

I mean, if that's the way water behaves, what's the point of making a realistic use of birch?

You are missing the point, it seems. Not meant to be realistic - it is meant to give the birch a different use than just as tinder (which becomes irrelevant after Firestarting lvl 3) - and to give players access to make lantern oil new way, a way that makes sense and is not too easy.

1 hour ago, k0s0ff said:

And why complicate things. There is such a thing - a long sliver (if translated into English) it was used until the beginning of the XX century ,it was made of wood. Out of a single piece of wood was extracted many of these things. I love the light source.

I believe you mean a wooden splinter (деревянный осколок). What would be the point? Wouldnt a candle be much better light source? One that actually takes longer than 5 minutes to burn up? Also, I am sorry to say - the Hinterland made a comment why there are no candles in the game - because they have issues trying to code it in - the light effects are messed up, supposedly. So, for the time being, there will be no light sources in the game. This one would not be so useful, to tell you the truth. 

[k0s0ff]

1 hour ago, Mroz4k said:

1 hour ago, Mroz4k said:

Let's not discuss water on this thread further. We can continue this discussion at the previous topic where it will be relevant.

ok. I will get acquainted with the proposed topic.

1 hour ago, Mroz4k said:

Sorry to disappoint you - the game is not meant to be a realistic interpretation of real-world survival. It is a game - some things in it will be simplified. Some of the things will not be added because they would make the game really easy. Having "hot water" give that bonus would make that bonus very easy to acquire. Problem with that is obvious - it removes the "challenge" out of the game, makes the game easy. The easy game gets boring, fast.

I completely agree with you. It's almost as boring as wolves that don't attack.

1 hour ago, Mroz4k said:

Again, the point here is that TLD is not real life survival simulator. Such a game is impossible to make, actually - because the main point of survival is improvisation - and it is impossible to program a game to allow improvisation, at least in the moment. I never really use knife to gather birch bark - what is the point? You can very easily remove it with your fingers. It also depends on what type of the birch it is, and how old the tree is... and yes, actually, you can find birch bark lying on the ground. Since this is already in the game, I see no reason to change it.
(I know a lot about the birch bark and its uses - I use it as a tinder all the time. Whenever I am in the mountains and come across some, I take a portion of it to keep my tinderbox full. I am holding a piece of it in my hands right now... Yes, there are other uses for birch bark. But again, not all of them will make it into the game)

Great experience! Unfortunately, I have not found lying on the ground birch bark. The knife is easier to collect more bark. Never mind. The important thing is that it may well get into the game.

1 hour ago, Mroz4k said:

You are missing the point, it seems. Not meant to be realistic - it is meant to give the birch a different use than just as tinder (which becomes irrelevant after Firestarting lvl 3) - and to give players access to make lantern oil new way, a way that makes sense and is not too easy.

2 hours ago, k0s0ff said:

 

1 hour ago, Mroz4k said:

I believe you mean a wooden splinter (деревянный осколок). What would be the point? Wouldnt a candle be much better light source? One that actually takes longer than 5 minutes to burn up? Also, I am sorry to say - the Hinterland made a comment why there are no candles in the game - because they have issues trying to code it in - the light effects are messed up, supposedly. So, for the time being, there will be no light sources in the game. This one would not be so useful, to tell you the truth. 

I'm reading. But I thought it was impossible to attract him to the candle light, which decreases with time ... something like that.

P S I am happy to contact you. Thank.

 

[Mroz4k]

Bringing this thread back to life, figured I would get more feedback on it from our newer Forum members  

Im currently in a process of re-branding some of my earlier ideas, polishing them up and should make them into new threads within next few days. This one was re-branded into a new thread relatively recently, so I dont think its neccesary I create a new thread for the third time. 

Any and all feedback is welcomed, as always. Looking forward to discussing this idea with the community further.

I think the TLD could greatly benefit from a new way to produce lantern fuel, and being able to produce it in bigger amounts would allow players to illuminate their homes even on the regular nights, by using several storm lanterns placed around the interior.

[Guest kristaok]

My favorite tree is White Birch! ❤️ So I am ALL for this! one thing I can't answer on is how much it should give, because I don't know hahah.  

[Mroz4k]

6 hours ago, kristaok said:

I can't answer on is how much it should give, because I don't know hahah.

It does not matter if its realistic or not, its what you think would be balanced for game, whether getting 0.3l would be too much, or not.

[Guest kristaok]

2 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

It does not matter if its realistic or not, its what you think would be balanced for game, whether getting 0.3l would be too much, or not.

I don't think that's too much.