What causes us to abandon common sense?

[CoffeePilferer]

Hi everyone,

I’m really enjoying TLD and have put 30 hours in so far. Like most new players I made plenty of mistakes but I have tried to learn from them so as to keep that to a minimum in my most recent survival game. I’ve currently survived 52 days (Voyageur) and I’ve noticed a pattern of behaviour or more correctly a trap which has happened in all my other games.

After so long of staying in one place doing typical daily chores I quickly start to grow bored with the whole routine. Now this isn’t a criticism of the game, just an observation of my habits and to be honest the routine is entirely of my own making. I don’t have to follow the pattern of chop wood>light stove>melt snow>boil water>eat cooked venison from behind the cabin>mend clothes>drink water>sleep, but I somehow get fixated on that. In most cases I don't need to do it anyway because I have a massive stockpile, but somehow I think "I always need more!"

A very noticeable fact is this whole tedium after so long actually causes me to act out/rebel just for some much needed variation. Sadly this variation is when things typically go awry and all the careful learned survival lessons are literally thrown out of the cabin window.

Such is the immersion that in a way it seems to me that I very much become stir crazy and have contracted cabin fever long before my character ever suffers. So I go out on some random expedition for a change of scenery and do something daft which in previous games has ended in a very grisly way. The previous survival game it was the lunatic notion that instead of shooting a deer like I originally planned, I decided to take on the bear which just happened by. Opportunistic gambles like that don’t make a lot of sense after being so careful up that point. Another moment of insanity was in this current game when I decided it was about time to travel all the way to Broken Railroad, which I might add I have never explored before. All the while collecting every bit of shiny loot I can stuff into my pack along the way like some greedy magpie... even though I've repeatedly told myself to travel light. I wouldn't mind but this trip had a clear goal at the start "go find the forge in Forlorn Muskeg", yet it deviated from a simple achievable task to an elaborate risk filled adventure which almost ended very badly. 

What causes this dramatic shift in behaviour, is it complacency? Have I grown sick of my character constantly whining about being hungry when she ate three extremely tasty moose steaks this morning and I'm trying to kill her off? Or is it more of the case that staying in the vicinity of somewhere safe for too long really does dull your survival smarts? I mean it’s really dangerous out there so why would I suddenly forget that and need a close call to wake up me up to reality? Or is it simply boredom of self-imposed routine? Perhaps in my case it's lack of experience.

The thing is when I choose to play the game always on the move I don’t seem to fall into this trap because I always feel I’m on edge and looking over my shoulder so I won't die horribly. Yet that whole mind set helps me to play the game better. I also took a great deal of care when I finally completed Hopeless Rescue on my fourth attempt and learnt a lot from it.  So perhaps the best solution for me is snow shelters or open cave living, at least that way I'm constantly exposed to and aware of the risks. Sitting in one place it seems that the greatest danger is really myself.

I’m curious does anyone else abandon all common sense at times like this and if so how do you guard against it in future runs?

 

 

[s7mar7in]

22 minutes ago, CoffeePilferer said:

I’m curious does anyone else abandon all common sense at times like this and if so how do you guard against it in future runs?

Welcome to the forum @CoffeePilferer.
You are off to a great start with TLD, at first it seemed you should try the next higher experience level, but reading your post was enjoyable so I kept going and it now seems more a play style question. The game for most of us includes some offline thinking and even planning in our minds.
This game is easy and fun to learn, (and you have gone even further by completing some challenges, Well Done.), but your own words give you the answer, plan a mission, carry only mission critical gear, and then stick to the plan. 
Lately some basic stuff is not so easy anymore and it becomes a sort of quest in the back of your mind. Seems like we used to trip over prybars everywhere we went but in one of my newer runs, none to be found anywhere...so add "prybar" to a personal quest list and focus on today's mission...then when you finally hit on a hidden prybar it feels like a very big deal.
The routine to maintain water and firewood is always going to be part of the daily grind, but pick an interesting mission for the day each day and it might spice things up much more than it sounds here in text form. 

Have fun my friend and Best of Luck.

[NardoLoopa]

@CoffeePilferer yes, I've been there.  I think @Raphael van Lierop actually mentioned this danger in a recent MailBag post (the danger of getting bored and doing something stupid, which causes your death). 

I think this is the wonderful thing about the Cartographer trophy (Steam).  It prompts you to take risks to map other places after you've a well-established and safe routine. 

[Pillock]

5 hours ago, CoffeePilferer said:

What causes this dramatic shift in behaviour, is it complacency? Have I grown sick of my character constantly whining about being hungry when she ate three extremely tasty moose steaks this morning and I'm trying to kill her off? Or is it more of the case that staying in the vicinity of somewhere safe for too long really does dull your survival smarts? I mean it’s really dangerous out there so why would I suddenly forget that and need a close call to wake up me up to reality? Or is it simply boredom of self-imposed routine? Perhaps in my case it's lack of experience.

I know exactly what you mean. I hope it isn't lack of experience, because I've played the game for hundreds of hours and I still get into these situations for exactly the reasons you're talking about.

I think it's a mixture of all several of these things. Complacency, yes - perhaps stemming from boredom with a settled routine that you feel could be repeatable for countless days into the future without much risk as well. Dulled survival smarts is also a factor, I'm sure. All combine to lead to your simply getting fed up with carefully avoiding yet another wolf, so you take a risky shot with the rifle and miss - next thing you know you've been mauled half to death, your so-far carefully maintained set of warm clothes are ripped to shreds, a blizzard is setting in and all of a sudden you're staggering about in a blurred-out mess, lost in the middle of nowhere. It's happened to me many times, and still does.

Part of the fun, I guess! (If you come through it)

[CoffeePilferer]

@s7mar7in Thanks for the welcome.  I've found myself in that position of having to take a risky shot far too often and I seem to forget how good wolves are at zigzagging and how bad I am with the rifle when tired. I find that's really the double edged sword of going on these little adventures to break the routine because if you're not careful they end up costing you more than you might gain and sometimes afterwards I consider what a waste they were. But if you don't do them things can quickly become too mundane and at another level it can feel like you really aren't playing the game to its full potential.

So I definitely agree better planning is needed.  I really need to keep these trips focused and more limited in scope. I think I should make better use of the journal and write mission plans that I stick to.  I should also put "Do not deviate from this plan in the slightest. To do so will result in your gruesome death". Maybe then I'll take far more notice.  Regarding your other point it's funny how the random loot can mess with your plans, I've lost count of how many prybars there are in my current game but I haven't found many whetstones at all.

11 hours ago, NardoLoopa said:

@CoffeePilferer yes, I've been there.  I think @Raphael van Lierop actually mentioned this danger in a recent MailBag post (the danger of getting bored and doing something stupid, which causes your death). 

I think this is the wonderful thing about the Cartographer trophy (Steam).  It prompts you to take risks to map other places after you've a well-established and safe routine. 

I hadn't actually read that MailBag post when I made this thread, but having looked through it now Raphael definitely was spot on with this, "Even if you store tons of supplies and hunker down in your favourite place and just pass time for days and days...you're going to go crazy and need to get outside and...maybe do something risky just to feel alive again." That is exactly how I feel at times playing this game and it's brilliant how well the daily tedium of playing safe makes you almost compelled to take chances again. I really wish there were psychological consequences which affected the character more when you hunker down for too long rather than just cabin fever. But then again you only have to read threads like one about the hilarious Quonset Manager to see how quickly some survivors go a bit bonkers when they spend too long in isolation. 

As for the Cartographer achievement I might give that a go at some point but I really don't like the way time accelerates when mapping and I nearly ended up as wolf food as a result. I think for the moment I might just break up my survival game a bit by doing the Whiteout challenge. I've certainly got no desire to go back into BR anytime soon.

8 hours ago, Pillock said:

I know exactly what you mean. I hope it isn't lack of experience, because I've played the game for hundreds of hours and I still get into these situations for exactly the reasons you're talking about.

I think it's a mixture of all several of these things. Complacency, yes - perhaps stemming from boredom with a settled routine that you feel could be repeatable for countless days into the future without much risk as well. Dulled survival smarts is also a factor, I'm sure. All combine to lead to your simply getting fed up with carefully avoiding yet another wolf, so you take a risky shot with the rifle and miss - next thing you know you've been mauled half to death, your so-far carefully maintained set of warm clothes are ripped to shreds, a blizzard is setting in and all of a sudden you're staggering about in a blurred-out mess, lost in the middle of nowhere. It's happened to me many times, and still does.

Part of the fun, I guess! (If you come through it)

Well that's good to hear because if you've played that much and you're still getting into those situations I will worry about it less. Perhaps the notable difference is that you're probably far more likely to survive any misadventures than I am. You're right though it is fun when you get into trouble, all the stress, paranoia when lost in a blizzard that you've gone the wrong way and that constant thought that if I die it's game over. Wouldn't change it for the world.

[Mroz4k]

Hello Mr. @CoffeePilferer, welcome to the forums!

For someone so fresh to the game, you are doing very well! I hope the game will catch to you like it did to so many of us and you will still enjoy it later on!

And you are very correct. There are two biggest killers in TLD... Those are boredom and panic. Quite often they kill in combination together.

If the boredom is the problem, perhaps it is time for you to try your hand at some of the harder difficulties. I can quarantee you will be suffering so much on Interloper you will probably never fall into that "danger of a routine" which is so typical for most TLD gamers.

If you are more like me and dont really enjoy torturing yourself, but instead like to "live off the land" and are aiming for the long game, then maybe I can give you some advice:

The routine is not bad. But trying to follow it meticuously gets boring very fast. You mentioned doing stupid stuff "out of the spur of the moment" - let me suggest to you to take a moment in the game, no panic, and just consider what your options are. Rather than doing something crazy, go for a simple walk. Observe the beauty of the game, the weather. Enjoy the game, rather then try to progress futher in it. Do pointless safe things just for the hell of it.

If you like Survival themed movies and documentaries - I can reccomend the story of one Dick Proenneke - who left somewhere in 60s to wilderness, built himself a cabin and lived there on his own till he was 93 years old. He would do all his chores, and then went for a walk, filming animals to his camera which ended up being the footage of that documentary, and wrote his stories into a journal.

Mimicking this in TLD gives it a new level of immersion. Your idea of going to Broken railroad is correct - but rather then turning it into "hoarding" trip, why not just go there and first explore it a bit? By trying to be safe, but mobile. Dont loot except for the bare neccesities.

That brings me to another point - you are falling into a bad habit most of us fell into at some point - when you loot, you are trying to take everything with you. That is impossible.  Instead, learn to prioritize. Tools will still be there when you come back 140 days later - but the food will be ruined. So, when you are looting, if you want to be efficient, take the food with you but leave the tools behind and come back for them later. I just recently tried looting up the entire island for my long-term Customized Voyageur game. I am somewhere around day 50, and I am currently looting up the Desolation point, which is the very last major region I havent picked apart yet. The thing is - I never actually loot any containers. Because if you dont loot containers, the things inside of them will not load, and will not start spoiling. I am walking around the world, collecting clothing, food and other things that are lying around the house, not stored. Most importantly - I am collecting all the skill books I can find. I am almost at level 5 in animal harvesting, cooking, Archery and firestarting. And despite all of that, I havent done a lot of these tasks - most of my skills come directly from the books. There is a LOT of skill books in the world. For example, I havent even fired gun once... and I am confident I have enough gun books to reach level 5 without even firing it once.

These are "things" I do in TLD when I get bored of the routine:
1. Go and set up an "outpost" in some other region. - I like to create sort of outposts in different regions - usually about 5 small outposts and one bigger one per major region - so in case I am there and I run into trouble, I can go toward this outpost and use its resources to survive.
I usually leave a little bit of raw food, some firewood, water and a few non-spoiling medical items at the small outpost. At the bigger "staging outpost" I leave more supplies, including tools and usually at least Magnifying glass. You will eventually figure out what works the best for ya

2. Go on an exploration trip. Which is really just a fancy term for a simple walk. Now, I have a lot of hours in TLD. Like well over 1000... yet I still dont know the map perfectly by heart. It changes from time to time. I know the paths, but it is good to remember that in this particular part of map, there is an overhang which is decently protected from wind... having this knowledge means, that if a blizzard strikes while i am in that area, I know about a place where I can take temporary shelter. Besides, I just love the atmosphere of a "pointless" walk in TLD. 

3. Dont over-stock. So many people have 500 kg of meat outside of their base, and 50 rabbit pelts... so what? They will never use them... So what is the point? Sometimes, it is better to just pull guts and meat out of the rabbit, because one has a use for it, and then throw the carcass off with the pelt or use it for a wolf lure... Now, there are things you can never have enough of - firestarting material, tools, weapons... but it is good to remember some restraint when stocking up.

It is important to keep a leveled head in TLD. Dont do anything awfully risky, because then you will likely panic, and panic is the thing that kills most players in the TLD. 

Or, you can do risky things just for the heck of it - but expect that there will be consequences to them  Anyways, good luck!

Edit: If you are still unsure what to do - you can play a game and write about it here on forums, the way other forumers do, or you can try your hand at some of the community challenges others have put in here. That is also a possible way to spice your game up.

[CoffeePilferer]

@Mroz4k Thanks for the welcome and all of your helpful suggestions.

When I say bored it was mainly due to repeating my routine and having given that plenty of thought recently I know I could have done something different at any time. I would say I fell into a habit. Most likely I think it’s the sense of immersion the game gives me and why I feel compelled to do my chores in a specific order. My last character, well she died in a particular nasty way and strangely enough it hurt like hell and at the time I somehow totally forgot about Permadeath.

As for interloper at my current level of experience I’m certain that isn’t for me. Cat tail diet, no rifles, homemade knives/hatchets and a lack of matches seems like some weird form of masochism other people might enjoy. I was tempted to play on stalker but I don’t really want the increased amount of wolves. Harsher weather and scarcer loot, reduced condition recovery and greater chance of injury I would certainly enjoy. So maybe my next run will be custom.

I do try to enjoy the scenery because I love the art style and I like to wander up to the forestry lookout to watch the sunset, but the last time I did that I decided to eat a left over candy bar and got food poisoning. I didn’t even wait to check the condition, my character was whining again "really Jennifer you had venison earlier" and in a moment of impatience I just wanted to feed her so she'd shut up. So this is really what I meant by random things jinxing me for not paying enough attention when I already know better.

What I am very curious about is if you can recognise weather changes occurring in this game by sky colour. I noticed that crows flying in a straight line usually indicate a weather state change but beyond that it doesn’t seem predictable as to what weather you actually get. Too often I worry about blizzard conditions or thick fog so it’s now a habit of mine to have enough stuff to make a snow shelter if needed.

Quote

“Enjoy the game, rather then try to progress futher in it. Do pointless safe things just for the hell of it.”

I think this is a really good point and to an extent the gamer in me wants to survive as long as possible but by the same token staying in one place doesn’t really feel like I’m experiencing things.

Broken Railroad wasn’t planned as a hoarding trip. It just became an extension of my visit to Forlorn Muskeg and if I really thought about it I should have left it for another day because I was pushing myself too hard. The problem was when I had to shelter in the maintenance shed and found so much stuff there. I was like a kid in a candy store. Then to make matters worse I went to the Hunting Lodge, found more gear and stupidly thought I’d have no problem hauling it back. The three wolves I ran into had other ideas… then the other two I ran into later just made matters worse. I knew it was nuts but that didn’t stop me doing it, thankfully I only just survived by the skin of my teeth.

Truth is I don’t like BR at all, I feel too hemmed in and there are bad sight lines so it’s easy to get ambushed. MT was far more tolerable and had good loot, was useful to haul things to the park office near the rope point rather than burdening myself. And even though its wolf infested you can stand on hills and scope out the streets first.

I suspect I’ve played far too much Fallout and Elder Scrolls over the years so I have a tendency to be a pack rat and grab everything that isn’t nailed down. But as you say I pretty much have all the time in the world to get these things, it’s not like anyone else will scavenge it.

The tip about not looting containers is something I didn’t know about it. I just assumed all man made food supplies would perish over time but that only seems to apply to stuff in the open or examined containers. So next time I’ll try to stick to just taking what I need that’s lying around in plain sight.

I’ve been thinking about outposts for a while but not got around to doing anything about it. It makes good sense to just leave some cat tails, water and wood, as well as bandages and old man beard’s dressing so if I make a mistake hauling too much again I’ll be much closer to a safe place. I guess I should do that to break up my routine.

Overstocking is a problem sometimes. I could open a fresh water shop with my reserves. I also think trapping rabbits isn’t worth it in calories, so beyond the pelts for the gloves (which I have now) and the guts are useful.

Good news is that I have my wolf coat, deer leggings and boots, as well as the rabbit fur mittens. Waiting on some guts to cure for my moose pack. I think I’m going back to TM. I like it there, it makes me feel just scared enough to pay attention to what's going on without feeling I’m in the heart of wolf central like Quonset garage.

I’ll look up that Dick Proenneke too, I like survival movies/documentaries.

 

[Pillock]

38 minutes ago, CoffeePilferer said:

As for interloper at my current level of experience I’m certain that isn’t for me. Cat tail diet, no rifles, homemade knives/hatchets and a lack of matches seems like some weird form of masochism other people might enjoy. I was tempted to play on stalker but I don’t really want the increased amount of wolves. Harsher weather and scarcer loot, reduced condition recovery and greater chance of injury I would certainly enjoy. So maybe my next run will be custom.

When I moved into playing Stalker from Voyageur, the biggest change I noticed was the difference in the way fires warm you up (in Voyageur, your 'Feels Like' temp matches the fire's temp; in Stalker, the fire temp only adds to the background temp. This basically means you need to use much more fuel in order to get the fire hot enough to have a positive effect in Stalker, whereas any fire will warm you up in Voyageur, no matter how cold it is away from the fire). I didn't notice the increase in wolf numbers, or even realise that there were more wolves in Stalker at all, until I read as much on this forum. What I'm saying is, for me, the wolves weren't really that bad as a factor in terms of adjusting between the two modes.

Custom settings are very good, but if you haven't played the other preset Experience Modes first, it can be a bit confusing trying to figure out what affects each setting will have in practice, and you might find yourself shooting in the dark a bit with some of them (and then find you don't like the set up, and spend ages tinkering and restarting game after game until you get it right for your own preferences). Just a thought.

[CoffeePilferer]

@Pillock Well you're either a very good influence or a bad one because I just tried Stalker, random location and OMG! This mode makes Voyageur feel like a happy jaunt through the woods and seems almost soothing.  The fact that the fire takes time and more fuel to get up to temperature is exactly like you said and makes a massive difference, as does it's heat radius.  You can't rely on it anymore as a super quick fix. I made it almost through the 5th day before I.... expired. But on the plus side of things I didn't feel safe for a second and wasn't bored because I had plenty to do.  I even applied everything I've been told exactly up to the point where things went a little wrong.  The more severe injuries are especially awesome.  Definitely more wolves about, not drastically so but they felt more like small packs rather than isolated stragglers, as yet I have no idea how great their detection range is so I gave them a very wide berth. One things for sure I'm definitely going to need much more practice.

[Czhilli]

7 hours ago, CoffeePilferer said:

So I definitely agree better planning is needed.  I really need to keep these trips focused and more limited in scope. I think I should make better use of the journal and write mission plans that I stick to.  I should also put "Do not deviate from this plan in the slightest. To do so will result in your gruesome death". 

It’s a good to have a plan. But it’s also good to be prepared to change tack when danger or opportunities present themselves. I always have a number of goals that I am working towards. In my new Stalker run I’ve made my way to Coastal Highway in the search for better clothing. I’m 75 days in and still haven’t found wool toque and without it I don’t feel properly equiped. But I’m also mapping (ever the optimist, I think that maybe may be this time I’ll survive to complete Faithful Cartographer), establishing small supply caches and bases of operation, and most importantly always on the eye out for a moose so I can make a satchel.

The weather makes a huge difference as to what I’m actually able to work towards at any time and I need to take opportunities when they arrive. Unless I’m doing a heavy task, like an ice fishing trip, I try to have all the equipment on, or near me, that I will need to just go somewhere else and do something else at moments notice.  It might be beautiful day and rather than go check the snares as planned I’ll decide it’s the day to hike across the ice to Quonset while the visibility is good and I can more easily avoid the wolves. I might find a moose at the town site in which case everything will resolve around hunting, butchering, cooking and curing until I can make the satchel. Or I might be distracted by something else.  But, I always try to have options rather be focused on a single task or routine, and I try to be prepared for as many different options as possible in case they present themselves. It’s not daft to head off on an unplanned adventure if you are ready to it.

[Mroz4k]

5 hours ago, CoffeePilferer said:

As for interloper at my current level of experience I’m certain that isn’t for me. Cat tail diet, no rifles, homemade knives/hatchets and a lack of matches seems like some weird form of masochism other people might enjoy.

If you can make it far enough to actually craft tools then you are a boss, mate  Now really, it aint THAT bad - it is just a lot different feeling then Voyauger. 

5 hours ago, CoffeePilferer said:

I was tempted to play on stalker but I don’t really want the increased amount of wolves.

I played stalker a couple of times when it came out years ago, and it scarred me for life with that mode. Never was a big fan of wolves either. The solution for you - Custom made difficulty. Turn down the things you dont really enjoy a lot. Turn up the things that you consider to be too easy for your level of skills. Make it more your own fit

5 hours ago, CoffeePilferer said:

What I am very curious about is if you can recognise weather changes occurring in this game by sky colour.

Indeed you can. Though on occasion, the changes come in too quickly to really be noticeable. But there are plenty of hidden ways to determine a change in weather. Usually it is gradual. You already mentioned one of the indicators - the flying crows.

5 hours ago, CoffeePilferer said:

Too often I worry about blizzard conditions or thick fog so it’s now a habit of mine to have enough stuff to make a snow shelter if needed.

Nothing against the snow shelters, but I often found them very expensive - cloth can become quite a rare resource easily enough. And the shelter may not save you... It is better to have a general knowledge of the area, so you know where to go if you get caught with your proverbial pants down by the weather. Something to consider - when visibility is very poor, pick a direction and walk in it. Go either up the terrain, or down it. Find a river, train tracks, a path - then follow it. Odds are it will lead you to some sort of shelter. The very same survival trick applies - if you get desoriented, find a river and follow it down the stream - eventually, you will find civilization. Cause people built towns around rivers. 

5 hours ago, CoffeePilferer said:

I was like a kid in a candy store.

I know how that goes  all too well. I still find myself sometimes looting too much when I should be keeping things light.
I have a system for looting dangerous places, for example the Coastal Town round the Quonset gas station. When I need to loot that kind of area, I take my bow, and as a first thing, I clear out all the hostile animals around. Then, I hoard it all up some ways away from this "dangerous" area. I am trying to act quickly to limit the amount of time spent in this area - and once I took everything worth taking, I transport that stash to a nearby, safer area - for safe keeping. 
The system works pretty well - just make sure to get it all done by sundown... the aurora can mess things up - during aurora, predators get respawned, and they are more aggresive.

When I want to loot up the entire region, I will pick some centralized, safe to visit area, and amass all the gear from the region there. Then, I clear out the path towards the home region with my bow. Then, I move everything as quick as I can to the area at the edge of the connector to my main base region. Eventually, in these "paths" I can move everything to my base if I want to. But I rarely bother. 

5 hours ago, CoffeePilferer said:

The tip about not looting containers is something I didn’t know about it.

It is more of a game mechanic feature, not really a tip. Makes no sense, really - but that is the way it works. Most of the food and all the clothing degrades over time. Tools only degrade if you get mauled by a bear (randomly selected items), or if you use them. Lanterns, for example, do not get damaged at all. Medical things like pills degrade - but rose hips and reishis dont. 

5 hours ago, CoffeePilferer said:

I think I’m going back to TM. I like it there, it makes me feel just scared enough to pay attention to what's going on without feeling I’m in the heart of wolf central like Quonset garage.

I feel ya. There is a reason I dont really like Desolation Point, Coastal Highway, Mountain Town and even Pleasant valley too much. Its just wolves everywhere. I usually set up in Mystery Lake, but that is just cause it is so close to my heart. I too like to hang around the TWM a lot, just hunting. I like to spend time at Forlorn Muskeq cause of how open it is - I usually dont have issue with weather and I prefer to have perfect visibility. And a skilled eye can find shelter anywhere... I remember people complaining how they died to weather exposure in a blizzard at FM when it got added - cause blizzard caught them in the open. Not me... I have survived countless blizzards in FM, hucked under a floe, sleeping soundly in a bedroll with a campfire, burning next to me... TLD is a lot about ingenuity when it comes to shelters  

I think you would enjoy Hushed River Valley. It is pretty far to reach, and has no man made structures and most of the loot there is natural. It does not have a lot of predators, but a lot of wildlife - and it is quite a bit of a natural maze, with canyons, cliffs, climbs, caves and even ice caves, which are both beautiful and terrifying.
It is the perfect 5 to 7 days trip to bowhunt and just live off the land kind of trip. Just bring at least two sewing kits and some 8 cloth pieces, so you have cloth for repairs and possibly bandages. But it is so rewarding break from that deafenning routine. Just be careful getting there - passing through Mountain Town which is full of predators.

[Mroz4k]

If you try to stick to the plans in TLD, you will have a baaaad time...  TLD is quite unpredictable in its whims. So if you make a solid plan, and then the circumstances change, and you are unable to fullfill it, you are more likely to panic and do something reckless. It is good to have a plan - but you also have to be able to improvise. Learn to read the situation (weather, time, animal movements), re-evaluate and then change the plan to custom fit it to the ever-changing circumstances.

Word of advice that is VERY important, though: Do not panic. There is no need to... nothing in the game is going to really kill you instantly, unless you are low on condition and it is an animal attack... 
When you get struck by a blizzard, and are freezing, 95% of players go instantly into panic mode and start running towards what they believe is shelter... and end up getting fatiqued, eventually finding out they started walking in a completedly wrong direction, and got themselves even more lost... (ironically, I did this very exact thing today. Though in my defense, I was freezing in the middle of the night fog at TWM and happen to bump into a bear, who JUST managed to miss me slipping past by him. I peed my pants in game a little bit)

You can take 20 seconds in the game just thinking, even in the middle of blizzard, freezing. You wont die, but you are giving yourself the time to come up with a plan.
The same goes for wolf struggles... it has been discovered that you dont have to mash the button as crazily as you want... but if you remain calm and press it steadily, you will win the struggle much faster. It is best to remain calm - which is not an easy task. But it is very rewarding - even for real life. This game is very educative in a lot of ways... that is one of them  

[Guest jeffpeng]

Very interesting thread, very interesting question in the OP. 

I guess what I can say about that boredom thing: tick-tock. Do a day of chores, preparation and recovery if needed, then do a day of "doing" things. Loot a location, explore a bit, hunt that deer, make the first part of a longer journey. It's simply human nature that monotony kills us. When people started working on conveyors, performing the same set of task repetitively, they got hurt doing the most stupid things because they stopped to evaluate risks correctly. Boredom is harmful. Not just in TLD, but you gotta credit TLD to actually display that fact so well.

Personally I have no idea how to make Voyageur in particular interesting for you. I spent my first three sandboxes on that difficulty, and that was it for me. But everyone has a different skill level, and different expectations when it comes to a game. I'm one of those masochists that like to work even when they play. So I've played the majority of games I've played on Stalker. Maybe the custom toolbox really is for you. I guess you can take Stalker as it is and just dull down the wolf spawn rate to what you have in Voyageur. Loot is still plentiful, but the surroundings actually challenge you.

But generally I want to chime in on what others said: If you don't have a challenge create a challenge. If you don't have a goal find a goal. Don't make survival the only objective. Think about your own life and how you would think about it when your only goal in life would be not to die. To just do that Voyageur, frankly, is just to easy once you have a grab on the game mechanics - which you clearly do.

A last thing maybe, one thing that helped me get better at TLD and better at life: Make taking smart risks part of your daily routine. Avoid not taking any risks - and then taking a big stupid one. Take risks that have a healthy reward and you have a healthy contingency for in case you end up on the wrong end every time you can. It'll keep you alive physically ... and mentally. Plus it's just more fun.

--addendum: And a very last thing: Try Interloper not too late. I gave it a real chance much too late and much too little. It's amazing once you adjust your mindset. It's an entirely different game - and in my opinion the better game.

[CoffeePilferer]

On 11/15/2018 at 11:25 PM, Czhilli said:

It’s a good to have a plan. But it’s also good to be prepared to change tack when danger or opportunities present themselves. I always have a number of goals that I am working towards.

Thanks for the advice.  The more I play the game I have started to realise the same thing. I need to have general goals I want to fulfil to keep me occupied. If I decide to go and do something and the weather or wildlife is not going to play ball, then I need to adapt or leave it for another day. 

On 11/16/2018 at 1:01 AM, Mroz4k said:

I played stalker a couple of times when it came out years ago, and it scarred me for life with that mode. Never was a big fan of wolves either.

Once again all your advice is greatly appreciated.  Initially Stalker was a bit of a shock to the system after playing Voyageur for 30 hours and my first two runs were over quickly. At present in my new run I'm doing alright, I'm adjusting and have survived a mere 12 days. I don't like the extra wolves but I am learning how to avoid them and they aren't as  big a deal as I thought as long as I'm careful. You'll be pleased to know I'm no longer panicking and running around like a headless chicken but here's the thing... I'm really enjoying myself. 

I like the harshness of this mode and it isn't really that bad as long as I give consideration to what I'm doing. Increased map knowledge counts for a lot too and that was a key factor in previous runs causing me to do something stupid when I didn't know an area. In addition I've learned to ignore the audio prompts whining about hunger and cold because they used to make me feel my situation was far more dire than it actually was. They can moan and nag all they want  (pretty sure they have a tapeworm considering how much they eat) but in response I think "well you're getting your 600 calories for supper and no more, so deal with it!"

Like you said it's important to keep a clear head and I'm approaching things differently. I take my time now because I know how much I can get away with in terms of bad weather and condition loss. Why rush when I can spend a couple of minutes listening and watching before taking a particular path, which in most cases is the wiser healthier option. The current run has the goal of becoming self-sufficient and then I want to live in the wilds for a bit. Like you there's something about Forlorn Muskeg I enjoy so I want to head that way eventually. Start was DP, looted lighthouse, church, Hibernia, No. 5 CM and Riken. Crafted my arrows, have my birch curing. Have the bow already because I got lucky with the spawn.

My routine has become varied. At present I'm at the Fishing Village in CH. I've cleaned out Misanthrope's, Jackrabbit, the coastal houses. I was thinking about Quonset but honestly there's nothing I need there so the risk isn't worth it. Some days I go out and collect cat tails, then mend things in the afternoon. Or I read my skill books or fish for a bit. Most recent trip was up to the lookout simply because I wanted to watch the sunset. I sat there for a good fifteen minutes just enjoying the sights and sounds, I had a vape and it was a pleasant zen experience. Next time I do that I'll have a glass of whisky too.  As you can see I do appreciate it and I realise now that the goal is really to have fun with the time you have left in any particular run rather than merely continue on and on, although that can be it's own reward too. 

Once I've got my arrows crafted I'm moving to the ravine and plan to stay there a few days, then on to ML and then FM if everything goes to plan. I only going to use Trapper's as an outpost because I prefer to be outside as much as possible.

1 hour ago, jeffpeng said:

Very interesting thread, very interesting question in the OP. 

I guess what I can say about that boredom thing: tick-tock. Do a day of chores, preparation and recovery if needed, then do a day of "doing" things. Loot a location, explore a bit, hunt that deer, make the first part of a longer journey. It's simply human nature that monotony kills us. When people started working on conveyors, performing the same set of task repetitively, they got hurt doing the most stupid things because they stopped to evaluate risks correctly. Boredom is harmful. Not just in TLD, but you gotta credit TLD to actually display that fact so well.

Personally I have no idea how to make Voyageur in particular interesting for you. I spent my first three sandboxes on that difficulty, and that was it for me. But everyone has a different skill level, and different expectations when it comes to a game. I'm one of those masochists that like to work even when they play. So I've played the majority of games I've played on Stalker. Maybe the custom toolbox really is for you. I guess you can take Stalker as it is and just dull down the wolf spawn rate to what you have in Voyageur. Loot is still plentiful, but the surroundings actually challenge you.

But generally I want to chime in on what others said: If you don't have a challenge create a challenge. If you don't have a goal find a goal. Don't make survival the only objective. Think about your own life and how you would think about it when your only goal in life would be not to die. To just do that Voyageur, frankly, is just to easy once you have a grab on the game mechanics - which you clearly do.

A last thing maybe, one thing that helped me get better at TLD and better at life: Make taking smart risks part of your daily routine. Avoid not taking any risks - and then taking a big stupid one. Take risks that have a healthy reward and you have a healthy contingency for in case you end up on the wrong end every time you can. It'll keep you alive physically ... and mentally. Plus it's just more fun.

--addendum: And a very last thing: Try Interloper not too late. I gave it a real chance much too late and much too little. It's amazing once you adjust your mindset. It's an entirely different game - and in my opinion the better game.

Thanks for the response.  Funnily enough my gaming tastes have changed over the years and I really enjoy anything that seems like work so TLD is a good fit for me. I just find that sort of thing more immersive, as if I'm living a different life. When someone suggested a year ago that I try a tucking game I laughed until I started playing it and got addicted to the routine. In regards to TLD I think what was making things boring is that Voyageur felt too safe, the consequences of mistakes were less punishing and rather than challenge myself by increasing the difficulty, I got stuck in a rut. Stalker seems the right fit for me so far and any progress I make feels well earned. And yes I think I will try Interloper eventually. My biggest fear was the lack of the rifle but I've been without one in my current Stalker run so far and I don't feel I need it. In a way it became like a safety net to me and since I'm a really crap shot not an especially useful one.

[Guest jeffpeng]

Just now, CoffeePilferer said:

Voyageur felt too safe, the consequences of mistakes were less punishing

That's basically hitting the nail on the head. When you actually can just run into 5 wolves and walk away .... that's a bit too easy for my taste. And with the right equipment you can actually do that. I have a RL pal playing Voyageur and Voyageur only, and that's how he rolls. He just likes the idea of being this borderline invincible wilderness hulk that maws down wolves with hatchets.

Just now, CoffeePilferer said:

My biggest fear was the lack of the rifle

Once I got a bow the only occasion I pulled out the rifle was when I went hunt bear or moose. Just too heavy that thing.

Just now, CoffeePilferer said:

pretty sure they have a tapeworm considering how much they eat

Best explanation for having half a deer for breakfast and complaining by lunchtime I've heard so far

[Mroz4k]

I am glad some of my experience was helpful  And I think you have a decent safety margin now to play the game and enjoy it without falling into that deadly routine.  The interloper will be a different experience - you wont have time to really appreciate the wilderness there as you will be constantly in rush to fullfill some of your needs). Happy to see someone else is appreciating the beauty of the game and taking it easy rather than trying that hardass survivor-all-day attitude (not judging, btw  to each their own)

I think I will give a Stalker a couple of tries, too, you have inspired me to try and overcome my irrational fear of the old wolves... cause way back when I tried Stalker it was before the bow was even in the game (I think) and the wolves were far, far too brutal for my tastes. But things changed and I think I need to work through my issues with being too overly cautious.

Frankly, I am running a Custom long-term survival which is at 50 days at the moment, but one that I have easily spent some 60 realtime hours in already - I have completedly looted out the entire world, with the exception of the big settlements like Milton or Coastal town. I only really took the things that were outside containers, and I focused on the skill books specifically. Got so much of em it is insane - currently I am holed up at Camp office, trying to read through it all so I can get a general idea of how much I can improve my skills by just reading the skill books. 

I am currently experiencing some minor boredom because I think I set up my custom difficulty to be too easy of a Voyaguer. I made the weather more brutal and the needs more punishing, but the rest is left at around the Voyageur level, and the loot is just the best it can be (I wanted to be able to pin point possible spawnpoints for research books better, plus I like to have a lot of equipment to work with). I will be posting my experiment results with the research books soon - needless to say I think I was able to reach almost all the skills at level 5 except for (oddly) fishing and mending. I did cook, harvest and shot animals with a bow a little bit, but I havent crafted any arrows or bows yet, just found a bunch of em ingame. I am quite confident I know most of the research book spawns in the game, with the exception of the region Mountain Town - where I so far found only a single book (Advanced rifles) - and from a different game know there is a cookbook spawn in Gray mother´s house. I will have to pick over that region on Pilgrim to get a better idea of where the books are in there.

If the Stalker-level of game wont be enjoyable for me, I think I will start a new Custom game as a try to get a better fit for my likes - even more brutal weather, fearful but agressive wolves, more of them, bigger animal attack punishment, etc. Will still leave the highest amount of loot possible, cause I like to have a reason to come re-looting locations later on in the game. Not sure yet where I will set up my base - but I am thinking Fishing town in CH, or possibly Jackrabbit´s. I usually camp out at TWM or ML in Camp office/Trappers.

Frankly...  I havent even fired a rifle in Sandbox once for the past three years, deadly serious. It is just so goddamn heavy to carry around, and even with the bigger prey like bears and moose, I have adapted their behaviour patterns well enough to be able to kill them with a bow effectively. I always just stockpile rifle ammo... on that Custom Voyageur run I have so far 150 rounds, but I expect there are at least 30 more hidden round the world.

[CoffeePilferer]

@jeffpeng I can totally understand why your friend enjoys playing wolf slayer and if this were some kind of RPG where you could sell your pelts and trade them at Bartertown for coffee it might be a lot of fun (seriously devs don't ever do this). Yet killing wolves doesn't stop them re-spawning so at some point it feels like a waste, you're never thinning the pack and you're literally drowning in things you'll never use. But like you said it's way too easy. To be fair though I'm glad Voyageur exists as an option because in my case it would have been really off putting to start on Stalker.

Totally agree on the rifle. Even when I equipped it I hardly used it, but I clung to it like a lifeline and eventually it started to jinx me due to limiting my carry weight. In fairness it's alright as a noisy maker but it never scares off wolves for long. Hilariously enough looking at some of my early screenshots I'm holding it in every single one. I prefer carrying a couple of flares now instead and being far more mindful of my surroundings.

Glad the tapeworm amused. Alternatively it's a xenomorph parasite and we're all eating for two. Coughs, splutters. convulses... chest explodes. "Hey come on Jennifer those sardines were 22% condition".

21 minutes ago, Mroz4k said:

I think I will give a Stalker a couple of tries, too, you have inspired me to try and overcome my irrational fear of the old wolves... cause way back when I tried Stalker it was before the bow was even in the game (I think) and the wolves were far, far too brutal for my tastes. But things changed and I think I need to work through my issues with being too overly cautious.

Not often I inspire anyone so thank you!  In truth your comments inspired me to rethink my whole approach and I'm getting so much more out of the experience now. The wolf fear is definitely to an extent irrational but I am wary of how much damage they can do and don't like running into them. As long as you know where they frequent you'll be fine mate. Since you've been playing this way longer than me it shouldn't be an issue. I'm still caught out often due to my own lack of map knowledge but that problem will lessen in time. 

So you're holed up at Camp Office, tell me do you have frozen Bob upstairs keeping you company, or is your home thankfully corpse free on this run?  

I don't see why Stalker wouldn't be fun for you and I was extremely surprised by how close you can get to wolves when crouched. But when three or four of them at a time are sniffing around nearby it can feel a bit troubling. I suppose where you start will really determine how enjoyable the run is. I'm a big fan of DP>CH>ML even though it took 3 attempts to finally decide on that. Mainly because DP is so out of the way, there's the chance of the hammer, bow and hacksaw and it's pretty pointless to return to since you also have the forge in FM. Plus early coal which helps so much with Stalkers fire temperature problem. I would never do TM first even if I could pull it off on this difficulty because all that loot seems more mid to end game for me and if you did it from the start you wouldn't feel at all threatened. On Voyageur after TM and double expedition parka loot too many areas felt really straightforward with the exception of BR.

I also think that while loot is lesser than Voyageur what I've found is more appreciated and valued higher. I've found two army coats so far and the archery book which I never found in my other runs. Fishing Village seems a good stop off point, relatively low risk, plenty of cloth in the cabins. Workbench outside for crafting arrows, plus fishing huts. Loads of wood from the pallets, good chance of a hatchet. Plus you're not far off from heading up the frozen stream and stocking up on cat tails for food and tinder.Birch in that area too. Quonset on the other hand can go to hell and I'll stick to avoiding wolf town. Good shortcut straight up the slope from FV to the exit road to Ravine region and has been wolf free on every trip so far.

I'll certainly say that BR, HRV, FM wouldn't be fun starts for me on this mode. Milton is doable but seems wiser as an excursion from Trappers. Just my thoughts and everything is open to revision.

[Czhilli]

1 hour ago, Mroz4k said:

I think I will give a Stalker a couple of tries, too, you have inspired me to try and overcome my irrational fear of the old wolves... cause way back when I tried Stalker it was before the bow was even in the game (I think) and the wolves were far, far too brutal for my tastes. But things changed and I think I need to work through my issues with being too overly cautious.

I got back into the game recently having only played Voyager before. I’m playing on Stalker and after some initial frustration I’m enjoying it. You do need to be cautious of the wolves because they hit hard and are usually in packs. It’s the second struggle that kills you.

You have to approach the wolves in a different way on Stalker. Playing on Voyager I would use half eaten bits of meat as decoys and happily pay the wolf tax to avoid damage to my clothes (I wasn’t really worried about being killed). This is not a good strategy on Stalker you need far more decoys, it’s much harder to feed multiple wolves at the same time, and even harder to survive fights in quick succession. I’m finding a strategy of avoidance to be most successful and that means observing and understanding wolf behaviour much better. I’ve just been looting Quonset and the Coastal Townsite and there have been wolves patrolling the whole time. I’ve only been spotted twice and often the wolves have passed within a couple of meters of me without noticing. I realised that I was actually playing an incredibly difficult stealth game where all the usual gimmicks like predictable repetitive patrol routes and silent takedowns have been removed. Having my 87 day survivor cowering the other side of a snow bank from snuffling death was incredibly tense.

I’m really enjoying the change in my gameplay that playing on Stalker has brought. I’m not really struggling for resources and can sustain good condition easily, but Great Bear Island feels dangerous again and I have to be on point when I’m out and about on my wild goose chases.

[Czhilli]

1 hour ago, CoffeePilferer said:

Fishing Village seems a good stop off point, relatively low risk, plenty of cloth in the cabins. Workbench outside for crafting arrows, plus fishing huts. Loads of wood from the pallets, good chance of a hatchet. Plus you're not far off from heading up the frozen stream and stocking up on cat tails for food and tinder.Birch in that area too. Quonset on the other hand can go to hell and I'll stick to avoiding wolf town. Good shortcut straight up the slope from FV to the exit road to Ravine region and has been wolf free on every trip so far.

I really like the Fishing Camp but you need to keep an eye out for the bear that sometimes likes to visit and join you by your campfire. Wolf town is not somewhere I intend to stay long but I have found the woolen toque, whetstone and painkillers that I’ve been looking for, so it’s been worth the nerve racking effort to loot it thoroughly.

[Mroz4k]

1 hour ago, CoffeePilferer said:

So you're holed up at Camp Office, tell me do you have frozen Bob upstairs keeping you company, or is your home thankfully corpse free on this run?  

Nope, I dont have him in there. And truth to be told, it is for that reason I find it kind of lonely in there. I like having him in there - he is such a great listener, and he is always so eager to store my 10 kg worth of sticks that I would have to othervise drop to the ground and then annoying pick up one at a time...

39 minutes ago, Czhilli said:

Wolf town is not somewhere I intend to stay long but I have found the woolen toque, whetstone and painkillers that I’ve been looking for, so it’s been worth the nerve racking effort to loot it thoroughly.

Eventually I will walk in there, Rambo my way around with a bow and make a mountain of woof-woofer bodies, then loot the F out of that place - literally tearing it all down to the last curtain. Then I will pack it up like a mule and haul my bum to that lonely house above the Town, where I will store the lootz till I decide to move it elsewhere.

Them curtains are a good source of valuable cloth  

Oh, and I dont mind the teddy bear coming for a visit - but I recently passed through that area and I didnt see him in there anywhere - so maybe my game doesnt have him, spawned there. I know there is a cuddly bear spawn below Misantrophe´s in that game, and another one somewhere round the "cabin village". Probably just two bears in the region. Lucky me! I enjoy walking up and down the bear creek in relative safety  

[melcantspell]

My first TLD game was on Pilgrim and lasted about 2 weeks. Then I got bored, did stupid stuff and died. I started a new game, this time on voyager difficulty. I did far more quickly now (can't quite remember, but it was probably on day 5 or something ;))

Now I'm in my 2nd voyager game and it's day 392. It's so weird - at first I was happy to survive for 30 days, then 50 days, wow even over a 100 days ... then I guess on day 120 or so I started to get really bored and wanted to switch to a higher difficulty level. Only I didn't, for two reasons: 1) I want to see if I can make it to day 500 2) the level of perceived boredom is constantly changing in very weird and unpredictable ways, so it does make sense for me to "just keep on for a while". 

I set up camps. I explore regions. I craft stuff. I go outside, have coffee and check the weather to decide if it's a good day to take a brisk walk around the hut, or if I should go on a 1-2 day hunting trip, or if I should stay inside and stitch up my clothes. Sometimes I decide to just pack up and leave the region to see what it's like elsewhere. Other times, I think it's a good idea to relocate to another region to fetch stuff or get stuff done, and meticulously plan my trip, then spend days preparing for it. Sometimes I get angry and kill all the animals around me. Then I look at the bodies and feel so empty and guilty - then I decide what to do with the bodies to make sure they haven't died in vain. I've only spent 5 days in Broken Railroad, which is the last region that was left to explore. Every region feels differently and usually weather dictates my plans.

The one thing I haven't experienced yet is routine. What exactly do you call your routine? I'm really curious.

PS: although I sometimes do feel it's a drag, I am also scared of day 500. Will I really kill of my character just to start a new game on stalker difficulty? Can I do that, after all that we've been through together!!?? I don't know haha

[Guest jeffpeng]

On 21.11.2018 at 10:11 PM, melcantspell said:

Will I really kill of my character just to start a new game on stalker difficulty? Can I do that, after all that we've been through together!!??

That, dear friend, is one of the hardest things to do in The Long Dark, at least for me. I can "retire" a character so that I will come back later - or maybe not - and keep him or her waiting. But I cannot go and jump off a cliff just because I made my 15, 30, 50 days goal. Let alone 500. But dying on Voyageur is pretty hard. At least dying of not stupid causes. Quite a predicament.

[Morrick]

On 11/21/2018 at 10:11 PM, melcantspell said:

I set up camps. I explore regions. I craft stuff. I go outside, have coffee and check the weather to decide if it's a good day to take a brisk walk around the hut, or if I should go on a 1-2 day hunting trip, or if I should stay inside and stitch up my clothes. Sometimes I decide to just pack up and leave the region to see what it's like elsewhere. Other times, I think it's a good idea to relocate to another region to fetch stuff or get stuff done, and meticulously plan my trip, then spend days preparing for it.

This is basically my way of playing The Long Dark. I've only played on Pilgrim so far (in Survival sandboxes), plus I have two challenges going (so, slightly harder difficulty). I currently have three Survival sandboxes, with my guy at Day 42 in the first, Day 31 in the second, and Day 27 in the third. My Mackenzies approach each sandbox slightly differently, each with his particular attitude. If you've ever watched the show "Orphan Black", it's a bit like the protagonist and her clones. It's a sort of internal role playing I do to keep things interesting. One Mackenzie is a bit more aggressive towards wildlife (and currently he's hell-bent on killing that white whale— I mean moose, in Broken Railroad). The other Mackenzie is an explorer who never shot a rifle or an arrow towards an animal, and the only animal meat he eats is from deer carcasses he finds, or the occasional rabbit already killed by a wolf. The third Mackenzie likes to challenge himself and has a more devil-may-care attitude, currently enjoying a stay in Timberwolf Mountain and practicing his climbing and mountain-goating… Maybe he'll try a sandbox on Stalker level soon.

Despite playing on the easiest setting for almost 200 hours now, I still haven't managed to get bored with The Long Dark. This game — or should I say experience — has actually been therapeutic for me because it helps me manage my IRL everyday stress. The Long Dark is my peaceful space and I don't consider wasted the time I spend in it. 

In-game, I try keeping myself busy and I try to approach every day, in every sandbox, with fresh eyes. I still manage to make stupid mistakes, like starting a campfire and needing to melt some snow to make water, only to realise I left my recycled can in some building that's too far away now, and I have no canned food to eat in order to harvest a can. Or I need to sleep somewhere outside and — damn — I left the bedroll at the Forestry Lookout. And one of my Mackenzies (the fourth one) was able to stupidly die in Hushed River Valley by falling from a ledge during a high climb because he was trying to place a campfire while walking backwards until there was no more ledge left… yeah, I know.  Momentary lapses that can have an impact even at easier difficulty levels.

–Rick