A Few Dead Men

[Drifter Man]

18 hours ago, fauxjargon said:

Congrats!  What an adventure.  It makes me want to go back to trying Deadman.  I'd feel good about a 20 day run, and a 49 day run is just incredible!

Thanks! It wasn't too hard actually, until Day 40 when I ran out of places to go...

[Drifter Man]

Marsh Ridge is shaping up as a second possible Deadman base. The local rabbit zone gives 4 rabbits a day, the other nearby zone in Milton Basin (partially wolfed though) gives more than 1. It doesn't have a workbench nearby but it's the best possible place if I want to park somewhere on the way to the forge. In addition, there are two possible moose spawns around.

It seems to me that a Deadman could live at Trapper's Homestead and make rounds to the forge when needed, via Marsh Ridge. Marsh Ridge can be reached from Trapper's through the cave and by skirting Orca and Milton, then down to Milton Basin. It's three ropes down and one up - actually it's a pretty long dive from Trapper's to the Basin. Then, mysteriously, again down, down and down back to Trapper's  So it's clear in which direction the loop should be taken in this topologically twisted world.

I'm currently testing the rabbit zones on the way from Trapper's to Milton - two between the ropes and one at the Picnic Area. These aren't too important as there's no point in staying for long, but it would be nice to replenish my calorie store on the way to Marsh Ridge. 

[Drifter Man]

Deadman 4 / Day 5

I expected this to be short - Deadman 4 got a really bad start. But somehow he keeps kicking.

Day 1 - I started at Offset Falls, HRV. Bad place. I ran down the river, collecting cattails, fed a rabbit to the patrolling wolf, got an ear wrap and two boxes of matches from the cave on the left. Naturally I needed a bedroll to sleep, so I went to Ice Cave A. Unfortunately, the landlord strongly objected against my presence there and I didn't have enough firewood to deal with him using fires. So I packed up and left. I walked back up river and to the rope, making it to Ice Cave B still in 100% condition but exhausted.

After a break to make some hot tea, I returned to the river and made it to the cave to Milton and to the trailer, all at night, losing about 25% condition on the way. I finally got my sleep at the trailer. Also a hacksaw.

Day 2 - I processed a deer carcass at the trailer and continued to the town, planning to sleep at the Picnic Area. I wanted to take a break in the Church of the Holy Wolf, but in the end I was glad I breezed through the barking festival on all sides unharmed. I ended up heading for the farm and had to return up river to the town, taking some more freezing damage. I slept at Grey Mother's and got a mag lens there.

Day 3 - On to the Picnic area, I reached it after bypassing Orca and most of the town, with only one wolf encounter. Warm up in bed. Bedroll awaited me there. In terms of key loot it's a good start but the spawn point and weather are terrible. I went down the rope in the evening, started a fire in the cave and made water because I was dehydrated now, and killed two rabbits with stones. Spent the night by the fire.

Day 4 - The local wolf was attracted by the two guts I carried but I beat it to the rope. Fortunately I had enough stamina after the short sprint to make it to the top. Cattails and coal on the way to Trapper's. There was no carcass at the barn at Trapper's but I found one at the rock formation in the direction to Unnamed Pond. Also three birch saplings, but no maple this time.

Day 5 - Now I have one deer skin, four guts and three birch saplings curing at Trapper's. Tried to stone some rabbits but no luck this time. The weather is bad, I could use a break, come on - these are the first days of the game. I'm wearing two ear wraps but haven't found any other decent clothing. In the afternoon I want to push to Camp Office. I need those cattails from the lake. Then it's the Dam, Winding River, Signal Hill, Farmstead, Barn, Draft Dodger's, Bunker, Mountaineer's Hut, Summit. You know the drill

63% condition, no stims yet.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Drifter Man

[BareSkin]

On 10/6/2018 at 6:09 AM, Drifter Man said:

Any other tips for "good" rabbit zones?

Wonder if you've checked JackRabbit's on CH. That might be a fine retirement place for a deadman id the rabbit's science is good. Fishing huts, workbench, nice visibility, beautiful sunsets.

About modes that make sens, what about BedLoper? You can't use use bedrolls. I think if you manage to craft you own, you've completed the challenge, maybe? The harder version of it is BareLoper: you don't find a flare pistol either.

Edited October 7, 2018 by BareSkin

[Ruruwawa]

10 hours ago, Drifter Man said:

Then it's the Dam, Winding River, Signal Hill, Farmstead, Barn, Draft Dodger's, Bunker, Mountaineer's Hut, Summit. You know the drill

Not even going to check for a rope in the Ravine?  Distress pistol + a stim seems pretty nice to have.  Cattails too.

[Drifter Man]

20 hours ago, BareSkin said:

Wonder if you've checked JackRabbit's on CH. That might be a fine retirement place for a deadman id the rabbit's science is good. Fishing huts, workbench, nice visibility, beautiful sunsets.

About modes that make sens, what about BedLoper? You can't use use bedrolls. I think if you manage to craft you own, you've completed the challenge, maybe? The harder version of it is BareLoper: you don't find a flare pistol either.

I thought about it (but didn't test) - somehow I don't like that place. Workbench is outdoors, no indoor fireplace (fishing huts only, and these have only one cooking spot) - things that don't matter much Interloper where you deal with CF but not so good on Deadman. And I'm not a fan of fishing - it means sitting the whole day in the hut and burning fuel, while the outcome is pure lottery.

As for "challenges that make sense" - I don't like arbitrary/artificial self-limitations, like - "now I've found a pair of wool socks but because of rule #124 of my challenge I can't wear them, I can only harvest them" etc. So it's either the difficulty settings, or limiting oneself to one region of the map. Even "Outerloper" doesn't work for me if there are buildings around. It just doesn't feel right.

[Drifter Man]

15 hours ago, Ruruwawa said:

Not even going to check for a rope in the Ravine?  Distress pistol + a stim seems pretty nice to have.  Cattails too.

Actually, I'm changing plans  It makes sense to get the flare pistol before going to the Summit. Also, I can get a rope and take it to the Ravine - later on I'll be too encumbered for that. So if I make it there, I'll change the direction of my Summit loop and go through Cinder Hills.

[Drifter Man]

Deadman 3 / Day 5 (continued)

A few quick choices what to leave behind. Mag lens - has lower probability of starting a fire and I need a high one now. Spare hacksaw. Three pieces of reclaimed wood - for snares later. Whetstone - useless until I have a knife. Sewing kit - I'll sure find another on the way. 12 matches - they are quite heavy and tend to pile up in my backpack. Storm lantern with 0.70 liters of fuel - useful but too heavy to haul around.

In the afternoon the weather I so-so but takes a better turn soon after I set out. On the way to the Camp Office I search three corpses and find a prybar and some nuts'n'stuff. Good, I like nuts'n'stuff. I slip by two wolves patrolling on the tracks and notice a deer at the Office as well. Wolves + deer = possible food. The Office has a tomato soup and more nuts'n'stuff, also two cooking pots and a bottle of painkillers. Another whetstone and another bedroll. I'll leave the bedroll here, I may use it for cloth later.

After I warm up in bed, I go for the deer "hunt". I immediately realize this is not a good time - it's dusk and the weather is pre-blizzard. I try the lake instead but run into one full coat on patrol. I only manage to snatch one cattail.

So it's off to bed for today. I'm almost out of food.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Drifter Man

[Hotzn]

Hmmm... I wonder how Deadman 4 suddenly became Deadman 3 again during the course of Day 5. Anyway - I would also suggest you investigate the rabbitness of Jackrabbit Island - I have never felt a shortage of rabbits there (one of the reasons I like it so much). Haven't been there as a Deadman though. Big plus: you can place the snares practically at your doorstep. Quickly pick up the rabbits and harvest them in the cabin to avoid attracting wolves.

[BareSkin]

9 hours ago, Hotzn said:

Hmmm... I wonder how Deadman 4 suddenly became Deadman 3 again during the course of Day 5.

"Reincarnation is the philosophical or religious concept that an aspect of a living being starts a new life in a different physical body"

Deadman3 did got rid of all of his needs. He achieved what BareSkin7 is still failing, despite trying hard. That's what masters of made for.

Edited October 9, 2018 by BareSkin

[Drifter Man]

Don't take the deadman numbers too seriously. Sometimes I catch myself typing "Snowball".

I'll check Jackrabbit later - it could be an useful temporary base in case I decide to explore CH. Right now I have more urgent matters to attend

[Drifter Man]

Deadman 4 / Day 6

Should I stay and drive that deer into a wolf? Or take the Lake Trail to the far side of Mystery Lake and collect cattails?

Deadman has to move, or die. I climb to Lake Overlook in the morning. The bookworm corpse has book of archery (nice) and a firestriker (nicer). I harvest the deer carcass there, catch one rabbit and collect the rope. Warmed up by a fire in the cave, I continue my journey towards the Dam.

By some miracle I make it there without spraining anything. There is a deer near the river, so I use it as a decoy. If there is a wolf at the Dam, I might even get food. But there is no wolf - at least I can roam freely. The winds give me a break for a while. For a short while. I collect cattails and search the trailers, finding antibiotics and matches. Then I sleep for two hours to get rid of some fatigue. It is dusk when I leave for the Ravine.

Reaching the rope attachment point, I start a fire, warm up and harvest meat from the deer carcass. While it is cooking, I risk one hour of sleep by the fire, which is only sheltered by a large rock - and survive. The weather continues to be terrible but survivable. I deploy the rope, take a torch and climb down.

It feels like an eternity as I descend into darkness, the burning torch at the bottom giving me no idea about how close I am to the end of the rope. I rely on audio to find out when my legs reach solid ground.

I recover the torch, quickly search the train engine - isn't there supposed to be a stim? I don't find any. The rest can wait until tomorrow. Torch in hand, I reach the cave - almost missing it, but the deer carcass serves me as a signpost - and check the temperature inside. Minus 1°C with the torch. So I have to burn fire. I start it next to the moss bed, stoke it up and sleep. A blizzard breaks out.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Drifter Man

[Drifter Man]

Deadman 4 / Day 7

When I wake up, it's still too cold and windy. I greet a fresh corpse high under the rocks, below the bridge - Deadman 3.

I keep the fire going as I vacuum-clean the basin. Cattails, rosehips, sticks, reishi mushrooms, one rabbit, meat from the deer carcass. I don't take any guts or pelts because that would take hours, and I want to get out of here today. I sleep to get fully rested instead. It's still windy when I leave in late afternoon, fortunately the wind blows from the south. I will be shielded during the climb, which is important. Search the train engine: the flare gun is here but definitely no stim. We're going back up.

At the top I start a fire next to the carcass I already harvested yesterday, this time I want the guts and hide. Now that I'm back up, I can afford the risk. I also catch a rabbit but manage to get only one gut out of the deer when the wind picks up. I hurry to the cave (near ML) and warm up. Late at dusk, the winds are still again, and it's warm enough for another walk. I visit the derailed train cars: scrap metal, a jerry can, nothing else. I return to the cave, harvest gut from the rabbit, and go to sleep. I have to start a fire in the morning.

Deadman 4 / Day 8

The day starts with a fog. As soon as the temperature is reasonable, I set out towards the other cave, direction to CH. When I'm crossing the fallen tree bridge, it starts snowing. Strong winds blow by the time I reach the cave, with one rabbit bagged. I check the temperature, warm enough if I stay in a bedroll. One hour of sleep: a blizzard starts.

I make fire, losing 1% condition to freezing (to 62%), cook the rabbit and harvest the gut. I make some water and reishi tea, then sleep again. The blizzard rages until late afternoon, eventually giving way to clear skies with almost no wind. This lasts until I reach the trestle - strong winds blow in my face as I cross, but I make it to CH. Attempt at a warming fire in the CH doesn't quite work, evil wind kills it within 15 minutes, but at least it buys me some time to reach rabbit grove. Rabbits are hopping around but I'm too cold to care.

During the night I peek out to see if I can get the rabbits. The aurora is on and rabbits are gone. I try again later, the aurora has ended but still no rabbits. I munch on cattails. I can hear crows from the campground, hopefully the deer carcass is there.

The wind keeps crossing my plans, it seems to never stop for more than 1-2 hours. And if it does, it's at night or in early morning when I can't travel anyway. My progress is slow, and slow progress means starvation, and starvation means quick death.

[Hotzn]

Always a pleasure to follow this. Onwards!

[JAFO]

Congrats on 49 days, @Drifter Man!

Interesting to see, too, that the Ravine isn't a guaranteed stim spawn..

[Drifter Man]

On 10/10/2018 at 8:53 PM, Hotzn said:

Always a pleasure to follow this. Onwards!

Thanks! I'll try not to die. But if I die, I'll be back.

54 minutes ago, JAFO said:

Congrats on 49 days, @Drifter Man!

Thanks - especially for introducing the challenge here. I'm turning Deadman into my standard play mode because it's so much more fun than Loper

[JAFO]

8 minutes ago, Drifter Man said:

Thanks - especially for introducing the challenge here.

You're most welcome.. 

8 minutes ago, Drifter Man said:

I'm turning Deadman into my standard play mode because it's so much more fun than Loper

There's a few people who've said the same thing.. and others who, at the very least, are introducing aspects of Deadman into their regular games.. 

[Drifter Man]

Deadman 4 / Day 9

Rabbit Groove stays without rabbits in the morning as well, they're just gone.

I leave around noon, collecting sticks and cattails. There is a deer carcass at the Campground, so I make a brief warming break there as I search the place. A few sticks, reishi mushrooms and 0.5 kg meat is all I get. Strong winds blow when I reach Fishing Camp. I don't find much useful stuff there, except stuff'n'nuts under the bed. Also a can of pinnacle peaches and a book on fishing (fits in thematically). No hammer at the workbench - this time the loot table set is different.

I harvest some curtains and sleep for a while - but I should really get to Jackrabbit by tonight, or I run out of food. Fortunately, the winds die down at dusk. With a burning torch for some warmth, I set out towards the island. On the way I visit a fishing hut (sardines, sewing kit), a boat (simple tools) and a corpse on the rocks (nothing). I'm thinking of checking out the small islets for maple sapling but winds soon return, forcing me to make a beeline for Jackrabbit. I make it there in time and even try to bag some rabbits but as usual when I'm hungry, I fail. When my temperature bar is about to run out, I jump into the cabin.

I find some more peaches and sardines. Still no can opener. My soul bleeds as I smash the cans open, 23% lost, 31% lost... I need those calories but I can't haul the cans around forever.

Deadman 4 / Day 10

I get a lucky morning - I do a ton of repairs and all succeed. Combat pants twice, jeans twice, ear wrap once, thermal underwear once, ski jacket twice. I don't care about cloth - there's plenty here - but the time saved by zero failures is nice. I peek outside, no rabbits. I guess they got scared yesterday and holed up. Eventually I find one but it turns out I threw all my stones yesterday. And stones don't happen to grow around here. I soon return to the cabin, I should get on my way again.

[Drifter Man]

3 minutes ago, JAFO said:

There's a few people who've said the same thing.. and others who, at the very least, are introducing aspects of Deadman into their regular games.. 

The great things about Deadman (apart from simply being hard):

• Starvation exploit - eliminated
• Cabin fever - an ultra obnoxious affliction - eliminated, without making the game easy
• No more running before sleep to get tired - you sleep whenever you can, as you should. Rest as resource is still relevant because it prevents you from hibernating and saving calories
• Meaningfully utilizes feats - I like it that being allowed to choose two feats is part of the rules

The not so good things, maybe:

• Reliance on emergency stims to get health back is kind of strange
• I'm not sure about long-term entertainment value. Late interloper weather may prevent all travel
• The wolf flood may turn into easy meat source at Level 5 cooking

Let's see how it all plays out

[JAFO]

5 minutes ago, Drifter Man said:

Reliance on emergency stims to get health back is kind of strange

Well, there is 'Deadman Lite', where a tiny amount of health recovery is possible..

[Hotzn]

Much boils down to health recovery being too fast in Interloper. If that was set much lower, Interloper could become the new Deadman. And yes, the stim is strange and always was. I never understood how taking a serious drug that makes your heart race like crazy should improve your general health permanently. I've only ever used it once ot twice, and it never felt good.

[Ruruwawa]

16 hours ago, Hotzn said:

Much boils down to health recovery being too fast in Interloper. If that was set much lower, Interloper could become the new Deadman. And yes, the stim is strange and always was. I never understood how taking a serious drug that makes your heart race like crazy should improve your general health permanently. I've only ever used it once ot twice, and it never felt good.

The stim-healing thing seems contrived to me too, even more since it's limited to 9 stims in the entire world.   Even the starvation exploit seems more legit, since in real life people can go weeks without any food (and quite a bit longer with 800 kcal/day).  That said I'm not a fan of the starvation exploit in TLD: it takes a lot of the challenge and sense of purpose out of the game.

So I've been doing a little testing with the two "no healing" settings in Custom mode.  First, At-rest Condition Recovery, aka healing during Sleep. 

On the Low setting, 9 hours' sleep restores 11 - 12% condition, sleeping in a cave in a bedroll, no afflictions or empty gauges.   Even this lowest setting can provide too much recovery to take the starvation exploit out of play. 

The other setting, Condition Recovery, seems more promising.  On Low, with no afflictions or empty gauges: I recover a flat 0.25 condition/hour when awake.  If you could manage 16 waking hours without afflictions or empty gauges, you'd recover 4% per day.  (Medium recovers twice as much.)

I really like the tactical flexibility of healing via the Condition Recovery (Low) setting. with zero healing from sleep.  Healing is very slow and comes at the expense of your daytime objectives, so condition is still incredibly precious.  For example, traveling to a new location.  Freezing means both condition loss and no healing, so now you have even more motivation to stop and make a warming fire.  On the other hand healing is no longer finite so it's possible to take a bigger risk occasionally.  For example, trade some condition to take down a bear then spend several well-fed days recovering.  Or spend weeks recovering from a bear mauling. 

[Drifter Man]

I played around with these settings earlier as well. The lowest at rest recovery rate is still way too high, while setting it to none and keeping "waking" condition recovery only penalizes you for sleeping. I posted a wish in the wish list thread some time ago, asking for having a minimum at rest recovery rate equal to the condition recovery setting. But the truth is, even 4% per day seems too high to me. I imagine about 1% per day would be appropriate for deadman style, whether you gain it at rest or all around the day.

[Hotzn]

A slow condition recovery would also make tea a much more valuable item. It is debatable how much of a boost tea should eventually give, but it should be enough to make it really valuable. And it should be fairly rare.

[Drifter Man]

Enough theorizing - Deadman 4 goes on

Deadman 4 / Day 10

With my repaired clothes, I get +9°C bonus on temperature. I leave the cabin in late morning, leaving some stuff behind that I won't immediately use: tools, about 20 cloth, a book on fishing. The skies are clear but strong winds blow from the sea. I make my way to the "firestriker guy" who, this time, has no firestriker (and nothing else for that matter). I am forced to make a warming fire in the fishing hut between Misanthrope's and Jackrabbit. During the warming break the winds stop. I cross the ice to Log Sort, watching out for wolves on both sides. I harvest a deer carcass at Log Sort - 0.7 kg meat. Do you think the wind will let me cook it in peace?

No way. But the steak (and water) do finish before the embers die, so I'm not forced to carry the meat around. It is warm enough for me to move despite the wind, so I carry on. Short stop at the trailer: some food, soda and nuts'n'stuff. Second carcass has 1.8 kg meat, excellent. I find a nice spot shielded from most direction and try starting a fire with the torch, but 60% success chance is really poor. I fail 4 times and the torch burns out. I light another. This time the second attempt works. I cook my venison and eat it. The winds stop again.

I'm tired but I want to make it to the Cinder Hills mine today. Search the second trailer on the path - some more food is found. Eventually I reach the mine and go to sleep.

Deadman 4 / Day 11

I start the day at a fire, making water and torches to pass through the mine. During the search of the mine I find over 40 coals, a storm lantern, another toolbox and a cotton hat - my first head cover apart from ear wraps. And my first emergency stim.

I'm forced to leave most of the stuff behind - the lantern and tools are too heavy and I want to keep as much coal as possible. After a short nap I enter Pleasant Valley, which offers a pleasant, beautiful, clear day, with comfortable minus 7°C felt temperature.

Within one hour it turns into this:

I'm forced to run through the blizzard, searching Derelict Cabins (painkillers found) and making two warming breaks in sheltered places. I get into trouble when I realize I ran out of tinder - I spent it all yesterday while trying to cook the deer. Harvesting sticks in a blizzard isn't fun. Being sheltered from wind, having a warming bonus from drink and accelerant save me from losing condition to freezing. The second break is in a bear cave, which is usually occupied - but not this time. I even get 0.5 kg meat from the deer carcass at the cave, harvested in the middle of the blizzard. My old leather gloves wear out, I still have a pair of mittens, but they're also in 20% condition. I hope to find a new pair soon.

Exhausted from running, I reach Mystic River Picnic Area. Enough fun for today. Tomorrow we'll search the cave and try to bag some bunnies before moving on to the bunker. Then, TWM.