A Few Dead Men

[Drifter Man]

Deadman 10 / Day 59

One rabbit caught. I reposition my snares and put three into the other rabbit run, although I'm not 100% sure about the place where the snares will work. An because it looks I could be running out of food soon, I make another trip up the rope to collect the rest of the rabbit meat (raw this time) I left behind.

Deadman 10 / Day 60

Blizzard. I cook the rabbits I brought yesterday. When the blizzard ends in the afternoon, I leave to check the snares and meet the wolf. I try to lure it to the cave with rabbit carcasses but it's not coming - I have to go out. My first attempt is a miss: one rabbit carcass is gone. The second is a headshot.

I get impatient and overconfident, trying to get the pelt without a fire. In the end I succeed at the cost of 1% condition due to freezing, it could be worse. Later I return and get 2 kg meat as well, but it's getting dark and the weather is bad.

Next morning I wake up Doubly Dead:

[Doc Gonzo]

4 hours ago, Drifter Man said:

I've learned to live with it, but nothing can make me like it... I never wanted hibernation. I just wanted to stay indoors when I feel like staying indoors.

This is my opinion exactly.  CF was introduced, if my memory serves me correctly, as a counter to people who were hibernating as a way to get onto the leader boards when they were still up on Steam.  They've long since been removed as it was determined that players had altered the game's data to artificially inflate the number of days they'd survived.  Thus CF solves a problem that no longer exists.  

I'm also always baffled why anyone playing TLD today would care if a player hibernates.  I can understand that it's not their cup of tea but what possible negative effect could it have on you if another player does enjoy it?  TLD isn't (and never will be) multiplayer or an MMO, thus what player A does has no consequence on what player B does.  

It's folly to think that during a raging blizzard you'd suddenly develop the overwhelming desire to abandon your warm, well-stocked base for no reason what so ever.  No one, no matter how cooped up they felt during that situation, would behave in such a way. 

Like @Drifter Man I tolerate CF but I refuse to embrace or like it ... it's like a law that was written a hundred years ago and has long since outlived its purpose but for whatever reason, remains on the books.  

Edited November 16, 2018 by Doc Gonzo
Edit: Clarity

[Guest jeffpeng]

20 minutes ago, Doc Gonzo said:

Like @Drifter Man I tolerate CF but I refuse to embrace or like it ... it's like a law that was written a hundred years ago and has long since outlived its purpose but for whatever reason, remains on the books.  

I think the reason it sticked around is that the game does a lot of things to make you do things because doing things is fun and challenging, right? Staying home all day isn't. And there is the problem that at a certain point you have everything you'd need to just hit the "skip 10/20/50 days" button if it existed. I'm not a hardcore loper player (although I think I'm getting there) but basically all my Stalkers die of boredom. I guess my current loper will eventually suffer the same fate. CF is a way to combat this, albeit poorly designed.

It would be half the issue if the Custom Toolbox would actually work as intended and had all the levers needed to truthfully create the difficulty you want AND the feat system would be smart enough to realize when someone isn't playing "Pilgrim++" with those settings and still grant progress. But I agree that CF is more of a nuisance than an actually working mechanic and hence should be considered broken. Once you have a game mechanic you work around instead of work with or against .... it's misplaced. Plus nobody can tell me that for a person that grew up in civilization dwelling in a cave (or snow shelter ...) is more mentally healthy than living in a house.

[Guest jeffpeng]

1 hour ago, Drifter Man said:

Next morning I wake up Doubly Dead:

Congratz. I can't even imagine how to do this. Amazing accomplishment - and still going. Make it a 100! *cheers intensify*

[Doc Gonzo]

1 minute ago, jeffpeng said:

I think the reason it sticked around is that the game does a lot of things to make you do things because doing things is fun and challenging, right? Staying home all day isn't. And there is the problem that at a certain point you have everything you'd need to just hit the "skip 10/20/50 days" button if it existed. I'm not a hardcore loper player (although I think I'm getting there) but basically all my Stalkers die of boredom. I guess my current loper will eventually suffer the same fate. CF is a way to combat this, albeit poorly designed.

It would be half the issue if the Custom Toolbox would actually work as intended and had all the levers needed to truthfully create the difficulty you want AND the feat system would be smart enough to realize when someone isn't playing "Pilgrim++" with those settings and still grant progress. But I agree that CF is more of a nuisance than an actually working mechanic and hence should be considered broken. Once you have a game mechanic you work around instead of work with or against .... it's misplaced. Plus nobody can tell me that for a person that grew up in civilization dwelling in a cave (or snow shelter ...) is more mentally healthy than living in a house.

I guess this speaks to a larger problem than the necessity of cabin fever in and of itself as a mechanic.  Late stage games become boring.  I've had an 800+ day run and yes it was boring. I admittedly started passing time on the porch (after the introduction of CF) because there wan't much of anything to do.  

You do still have to harvest food and gather firewood but even firewood can eventually be stockpiled in quantities that are outlandish.  

The thing is even before CF on that long run I ended up forcing my self to find things to do.  Base building in every region, check.  Camping out at another building for weeks at a time, check.  Bear hunting for the love of bear hunting, check.  Even fishing became a way to pass time.  I didn't need to fish but I was bored out of my skull so it was a break from the routine.  

 

 

[Doc Gonzo]

5 minutes ago, jeffpeng said:

Congratz. I can't even imagine how to do this. Amazing accomplishment - and still going. Make it a 100! *cheers intensify*

I'm missing something here, help an old man out? What does that mean, "waking up doubly dead"?

[BareSkin]

Just now, Doc Gonzo said:

"waking up doubly dead"?

The Deadman Challenge is 30 days originally. 60 days, you're a doubledead man :D. I'd have called it a SchrödingerMan.

[Guest jeffpeng]

3 minutes ago, Doc Gonzo said:

I'm missing something here, help an old man out? What does that mean, "waking up doubly dead"?

Deadman challenge is to survive 30 days. He's got 60. He's officially a "Double-Dead-Man".

[Doc Gonzo]

Thank you both ... I panicked when I first read that thinking Drifter had died but from his screen cap that obviously wasn't true.    

Salute @jeffpeng and @BareSkin!

Edited November 16, 2018 by Doc Gonzo

[Guest jeffpeng]

1 minute ago, BareSkin said:

I'd have called it a SchrödingerMan

And yet again quantum mechanics and TLD meet

[Ruruwawa]

@Drifter Man congrats on 60 days!  Amazing achievement (and patience)!  Wow!

41 minutes ago, Doc Gonzo said:

I guess this speaks to a larger problem than the necessity of cabin fever in and of itself as a mechanic.  Late stage games become boring.

This is exactly the problem: not enough reward to balance the risk of long outdoor exposure once you've geared up.  I don't have feelings about CF risk because I rarely see it, even on Interloper... I'm the outdoorsy type.  But my games end in boredom too.  Wouldn't it be awesome if there were new things to discover (like an extremely elusive NPC!  A hammer to repair your shelter.  A working two-way radio.  Etc.) only after day 100, 1000, etc.

[BareSkin]

14 minutes ago, Ruruwawa said:

@Drifter Man congrats on 60 days!  Amazing achievement (and patience)!  Wow!

This is exactly the problem: not enough reward to balance the risk of long outdoor exposure once you've geared up.  I don't have feelings about CF risk because I rarely see it, even on Interloper... I'm the outdoorsy type.  But my games end in boredom too.  Wouldn't it be awesome if there were new things to discover (like an extremely elusive NPC!  A hammer to repair your shelter.  A working two-way radio.  Etc.) only after day 100, 1000, etc.

I'm telling myself, after 100 days the winter has passed, you survived 50 days in extreme cold, the save doesn't need to be loaded anymore. Retirement @100days for everyone!

[Guest jeffpeng]

2 hours ago, Ruruwawa said:

@Drifter Man congrats on 60 days!  Amazing achievement (and patience)!  Wow!

This is exactly the problem: not enough reward to balance the risk of long outdoor exposure once you've geared up.  I don't have feelings about CF risk because I rarely see it, even on Interloper... I'm the outdoorsy type.  But my games end in boredom too.  Wouldn't it be awesome if there were new things to discover (like an extremely elusive NPC!  A hammer to repair your shelter.  A working two-way radio.  Etc.) only after day 100, 1000, etc.

I guess this boredom is sort of intended. Really successful games are supposed to "end" like a book where you know the protagonist will probably eventually succumb to their struggles - but not just yet. Sort of like an open end. 

That's probably why CF is so out of place. Instead of "fading" into The Long Dark, you run out into it head first because "the walls are closing in". I mean ... heck. The world has ended for all intends and purposes. If you can stomach that, you can stomach staying indoors for a week.

[Drifter Man]

10 hours ago, Doc Gonzo said:

it's like a law that was written a hundred years ago and has long since outlived its purpose but for whatever reason, remains on the books.  

 

10 hours ago, jeffpeng said:

I think the reason it sticked around is that the game does a lot of things to make you do things because doing things is fun and challenging, right? Staying home all day isn't.

 

9 hours ago, Doc Gonzo said:

I guess this speaks to a larger problem than the necessity of cabin fever in and of itself as a mechanic.  Late stage games become boring.  I've had an 800+ day run and yes it was boring. I admittedly started passing time on the porch (after the introduction of CF) because there wan't much of anything to do.  

I think these are all true statements about CF. Another thing is that the game gets a lot easier initially (on Interloper) if you disable it. So it's also a heavy-handed mechanic that makes the game harder (but not more fun). When you make the game harder in other ways (like Deadman), you no longer need CF - but it turns out you can't get rid of it anyway.

Right now, CF has forced me out to do something I was going to do anyway - go to Milton, to get material (wolf pelts and cloth) in greater quantities and with more reasonable weather conditions than in ML. Unfortunately, I had to leave before reaching cooking level 5. I should get there very soon though.

[Drifter Man]

10 hours ago, Doc Gonzo said:

Thank you both ... I panicked when I first read that thinking Drifter had died but from his screen cap that obviously wasn't true. 

Sorry about that. Yes, I'm Dead, but alive!

[Ruruwawa]

5 hours ago, jeffpeng said:

I guess this boredom is sort of intended. Really successful games are supposed to "end" like a book where you know the protagonist will probably eventually succumb to their struggles - but not just yet. Sort of like an open end. 

That's probably why CF is so out of place. Instead of "fading" into The Long Dark, you run out into it head first because "the walls are closing in". I mean ... heck. The world has ended for all intends and purposes. If you can stomach that, you can stomach staying indoors for a week.

Golden Joystick named their 2018 pc game of the year was announced today, and it's a single-player sandbox survival game with an actual ending.  Not wandering away due to boredom, but a resolution of your situation: sandbox over.  I've played that game and I found the ending quite satisfying.  I'd love to spend my sandboxes working toward a resolution of my TLD survival situation. 

[Dan_]

Man, you're an absolute beast! Keep him going please! 

I agree on all points raised in regards to CF, good observation on how deadman actually forces you to be outside(hunting) regardless, it is a mechanic that adds difficulty with no evident bonus. If I ever found myself in a similar situation, all I would want is a comfortable, well insulated cabin with a good bed. At least I'd go with a modicum of dignity. 

[Drifter Man]

7 hours ago, Dan_ said:

Keep him going please! 

I'd like to, but tell that to the wolves...

[Drifter Man]

Deadman 10 / Day 61

I find only one rabbit caught in the morning. I decide it's time to pack up and head to Milton before I run out of food. I harvest the rest of the wolf as well (1.5 kg, for 3.5 kg total) and cook everything in the cave, finally reaching cooking level 5. Then I drink warm tea, take a torch and leave for the rope.

After sleeping for an hour at the office, I check the terrain around Orca from above and conclude there are no wolves.

I decide to push on and spend the night at Orca. I take all my stuff - together with a lot of sticks I found around the picnic area, I'm quite encumbered - and reach the station safely. Only deer are grazing in the distance as I force-open the door and enter.

There are some food supplies, although two cans of peaches are already too degraded to be considered safe. I also find a new hacksaw, a piece of cloth, plus complimentary water in the toilet. This place has a bed: excellent. I force open the other door from the inside - I don't want to get caught tomorrow racing against a wolf for the door to find it locked.

Once I'm warmed up, I check the situation outside. All is quiet. I search the car parked at the station and move off to check the prison bus: nothing to be found there. Night is falling as I walk back. Suddenly I hear a howl, loud and clear, too close for comfort.

Three wolves spawn right in front of me and immediately turn their attention to the Doubly Dead Deadman 10.

I think quickly and start a fire - I'm nearly freezing so I need it anyway. I put one can of peaches on the fire and make water while I consider my options. I can return to the office, but I left my food and snares at Orca. I won't be able to easily restock on meat to bait the wolves. I conclude that my best shot is to break through to Orca, using the flare gun if necessary. I drink a coffee so that I'm not encumbered (so that the wolves are less aggressive, hopefully), arm the flare gun and approach the station.

The wolves are gone. I rush to the door, get in, find the bed in the darkness and sleep.

[Guest jeffpeng]

1 hour ago, Drifter Man said:

Three wolves spawn right in front of me and immediately turn their attention to the Doubly Dead Deadman 10.

Well there you got almost triple dead much faster than you thought.  Good you made it! Those delayed spawns killed me more than once, and somehow all of Milton seems to be prone to them. That's why I hate the map so much. Look: no wolf. Turn around: Three wolf.

[romerabr]

10 hours ago, Drifter Man said:

There are some food supplies, although two cans of peaches are already too degraded to be considered safe.

At cooking level 5 you can eat without any problem, even ruined food. 

[Drifter Man]

4 hours ago, romerabr said:

At cooking level 5 you can eat without any problem, even ruined food. 

Interesting. But I suppose I have to cook/warm it up it first? I'd guess that a bad granola bar can give me food poisoning all the same on Level 5?

Hmm... the text says "Never get parasites or food poisoning". Never is never. So you must be right!

Edit: but wait... how about raw meat?

Edited November 17, 2018 by Drifter Man

[BareSkin]

2 hours ago, Drifter Man said:

Interesting. But I suppose I have to cook/warm it up it first? I'd guess that a bad granola bar can give me food poisoning all the same on Level 5?

Hmm... the text says "Never get parasites or food poisoning". Never is never. So you must be right!

Edit: but wait... how about raw meat?

iirc @ThePancakeLady complained the text was misleading and did not apply to raw meat. Never had to put it to the test myself, but that'd be a true fuel economy! Sushi time! (Ruined cooked meat is fine and others non-cookable food too, I tested it)

Edited November 18, 2018 by BareSkin

[Guest jeffpeng]

Raw meat is the exception. Tested the first time I got cooking 5, instant FP.

[Drifter Man]

Deadman 10 / Day 62

I'm realistic about my chances - I can't deal with wolves and I'm a bad shot. But I have to learn things.

First, I check the station again and find two granola bars I missed yesterday. I break up one crate to make sure I don't run out of firewood, I spent quite a lot in that emergency fire yesterday night. I use the one piece of cloth I found to repair my toque and raise my clothing temperature bonus by a bit. Then I peek outside and collect the meat - four pieces of wolf, two 1 kg and two 0.5 kg. I eat most part from the two big ones and keep the rest as bait. When I'm ready, I set out, one scent bar, bow ready to shoot.

I carefully approach Milton, checking the terrain both in front of me and behind me. All is quiet but I know they are coming already.

They come from behind, from Orca - "full coat". I may be able to dodge them by fleeing to the town - but who knows maybe there are more coming from there? I decide to face them. I drop the first bait and kill the leading wolf with a headshot. The others turn at me again - I bait another but a third one is coming. Before I know it, I'm out of bait. I aim my bow at the nearest wolf and another interprets it as a signal to a charge. I change target to this one and although I miss, it's close enough to make the wolf flee.

It's total chaos. By some miracle no wolf is on me - one is dead, two have the bait and one is fleeing - and I make a "tactical retreat" to the park office. On the way I place my snares at the nearby run, then I sleep for an hour in the bed.

The weather is still good when I wake up. The wolves should be back to their patrol area at Orca. I want to recover my arrows and maybe process the dead wolf. I find out that they're still around, returning to Orca - apparently they froze in place while I was sleeping. I wait for them to pass and sneak through to the place of the fight.

I recover the second arrow I fired when I notice one of the wolves coming back. I don't know how this happened, I was crouched and I don't stink. I have to use the flare gun and because wind is picking up, I give up processing the carcass and run straight to Milton before the wolf comes to its senses again - it keeps running around me.

So I end up in Milton after all. I loot three houses, repair some clothes, eat 15% dog food and 5% peaches and go to bed.