New campfire cooking - some observations

[Moonraker]

Just some general observations on using the new campfire system with Update 1.33 Vigilant Flame. It's just from initial use on an existing playthrough so things may vary for others. This is on the PC Steam version.

New Campfire

• Existing campfires are automatically converted by the game once updated to the new style with the stone surround which includes two cooking stones (the largest ones)
• Lighting and fuel are the same mechanic as before.
• Orientating the campfire so that the two largest cooking stones are facing the position you wish to cook from is more important now when placing the campfire.
• Interacting with the campfire just gives the fuel options, the cooking options (obviously) are now removed as they are via the new Cooking system directly with the cooking utensils or raw food placed on the cooking surface,
• For raw meat direct cooking, you place it the cooking stone by using the Radial menu > Food and select the meat you wish to cook and Right Click (PC). The meat will turn green when it can be placed on the red circle of one of the two cooking stones and click to place.
• There are only two cooking stones so limited to cooking two items at a time.

Recycled Can

• New item used for camp fire cooking is added automatically to your inventory for a New Game (Pilgrim not sure on higher levels) and for existing playthrough.
• Weighs 0.15kg.
• Select for cooking via the Radial menu > Campcraft > Recycled Can. Select then place over one of the cooking spots red circle, two on a Camp Fire).
• Water is via the Melt Snow cooking list when interacting with the placed can. Only seems to allow 0.5lt at a time in the can. Assume more with the pan or on a stove?
• Possible to use 2 x Recycled Can on the campfire for a maximum 1.0lt with cans total weight of 0.30kg carry weight.
• Melting Snow > Boiling is one continual process. No more separate Boiling process.

Cooking Pot

• Weighs 1.75kg
• Can Melt/ Boil 2lts maximum at a time per pot. Maximum for a campfire with 2 pots is 4lts. at a time.
• Works on campfires for larger quantity cooking but with a weight penalty over the can.

Cooking time & Ready/ Burning food

Cooking time for the same food item varies depending on whether it is cooked directly on the fire (stone, grill)  or in the pot (can't place meat in the can). Tested in Pilgrim mode with a new character Level 1 Cooking. For example;

• Deer Meat cooked directly on the surface = 1h 35m
• Deer Meat cooked in the pot = 1h 15m

Time once cooked and Ready, until Burnt and ruined also varies depending if cooked in a utensil or directly on the surface (burns faster on the surface). For example;

• Deer Meat time to Burn once cooked, directly on the surface = 30m.
• Deer Meat time to Burn once cooked, in the pot = 36m

Note: Reading the Cooking skill text now, at Level 5 the Ready Times increased by 20%, which means for meat, it increases from that 30m on a stone, to 36m.

General points

• Limit to processing only 0.5lt of water with one can, or 1.0lt with two cans at a total weight of 0.3kg. Option to carry the pot which processes 2lts at a time (4lts max. with two pots on a campfire).
• With an existing campfire on a slope it may not be possible to use it to cook if the cooking stones are under the terrain/ snow. Just need to make a new campfire nearby.
• The invisible collision space around the new campfire is quite a lot bigger, so you will not be able to place items as close as the old fire due to this.
• Items that were within the new campfire footprint are still there and can be usually selected or picked up and moved.
• Cooking 1 x  Moose Meat on a campfire stone was just over 1h 30m? which seems really excessive. This is on a 2x timescale Custom playthrough which maybe a reason/ issue.
• Melting/ Boiling water, if left too long, the water will Boil away and no water left.
• Embers on a campfire will continue to cook like before.
• If the fire burns out, the cooking process goes on Pause  (mouseover text). Restarting the fire recommences cooking.
• It's possible to interrupt the cooking process at any time by Taking the can/ pot. The water processed to that time goes to the inventory.
• Leaving a tin of food cooking for too long results it becoming burnt and ruined also.
• If a food item like meat isn't on the radial menu (lots of food items) then you need to go to the meat item and click Add to Radial, then you can place it via the radial menu.
• It's possible to drop a food item as before and place it on the cooking surface, as an option.
• The fire needs to be started before the Cooking menu appears when interacting with the pot/ can.
• To avoid burning the food and ruining it (and it seems potentially reduce the pot/ can durability) due to forgetting it or delayed, it would be possible to adjust the fire so that it runs out after cooking but before burning. There is a reasonable window between food finished and burning. For the Deer Meat it was around 36m.
• Passing Time is also an option still if preferred.

Plenty more testing I'm sure for this new system. Just some quick thoughts to share.

EDIT: Updating as I test.

[thekillergreece]

Can pots and recycled cans ever worn out? Aka lose condition gradually. If so, any way to improve them? I cant imagine what happens if there is no more pot or recycled can and you cant melt ice..

 

EDIT: Yes, if you start a new save file, you will have ONE recycled can in your inventory, automatically. I am sure with pot, you can boil 1 to 2l of water. I will check it soon.

[Cr41g]

just curious.... anyone try a fire barrel yet for cooking...are they now dead in the new system ?

[Patrick Carlson]

4 minutes ago, Cr41g said:

just curious.... anyone try a fire barrel yet for cooking...are they now dead in the new system ?

All the same fire barrels are there in the game, we just updated them with a "grill" so you can arrange your cooking items on top. 

[Cr41g]

NICE..!!! thanks to all who have made this possible.... I have been gaming for longer than I would like to admit, I'm 53 and I have never played anything as engaging as this... Congratulations to all of you who keep bettering your adored creation... eh

[Moonraker]

51 minutes ago, Cr41g said:

just curious.... anyone try a fire barrel yet for cooking...are they now dead in the new system ?

As @Patrick Carlson confirmed, there is now a BBQ style circular grill over the top of the Fire Barrel which allows placement of two cooking utensils.

[thekillergreece]

I need to know one thing. Can pots/cans degrade over time?

[Patrick Carlson]

14 minutes ago, thekillergreece said:

I need to know one thing. Can pots/cans degrade over time?

If you boil them dry or burn your food, you might see some degradation. Stay vigilant when cooking!

[MarrowStone]

Also if you eat canned food the can is added to your inventory. If you stock up on those you'll have plenty for late-game.

[dead frozen dude]

So far I've noticed that the new UI mechanic for placing items to cook is somewhat precarious - click the wrong button and you're pretty much guaranteed to poison yourself... but hey, misclicking and chomping up something rotten by accident, I'm sure it has happened to everybody before

[MrWolf]

23 minutes ago, dead frozen dude said:

So far I've noticed that the new UI mechanic for placing items to cook is somewhat precarious - click the wrong button and you're pretty much guaranteed to poison yourself... but hey, misclicking and chomping up something rotten by accident, I'm sure it has happened to everybody before

I just came here to warn of this!  I was trying out the new stuff and accidentally clicked the wrong button while attempting to select some raw wolf meat for a campfire stone.  A quick bite gave me a 75% chance of parasites, which soon became 100%.  Now I'm the Vigilant Searcher of Mushrooms to try and beat my newly contracted intestinal parasites.  230 days into an Interloper character, where I've previously been consuming all the mushrooms I could find just to have a warmth bonus as I explored.  Dang.

Be careful placing raw meat on the campfire or stove!

Kudos to Hinterland for making an awesome experience even more awesome.  The new cooking mechanism is a tremendous update.

[Moonraker]

10 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

I just came here to warn of this!  I was trying out the new stuff and accidentally clicked the wrong button while attempting to select some raw wolf meat for a campfire stone.  A quick bite gave me a 75% chance of parasites, which soon became 100%.  Now I'm the Vigilant Searcher of Mushrooms to try and beat my newly contracted intestinal parasites.  230 days into an Interloper character, where I've previously been consuming all the mushrooms I could find just to have a warmth bonus as I explored.  Dang.

Be careful placing raw meat on the campfire or stove!

Kudos to Hinterland for making an awesome experience even more awesome.  The new cooking mechanism is a tremendous update.

I found while testing today also that, if the meat is not on the radial menu to select to place, I went to the inventory and twice clicked Use after clicking for place otherwise. At least we can add it to the radial menu though it seems to only add that specific piece of meat to the radial menu not all meat of the same kind is annoying.

It will take some getting used to and timing, especially I already felt it on a x2 playthrough but really great change and adds a lot more to consider.

[MrWolf]

The sound of six steaks sizzling on the stove is just heavenly!g

[cullam]

Yeah, I've managed to give myself food poisoning twice already by accidentally "Using" a dear steak, rather than placing it. Oops. It also doesn't help that this cooking change came at the same time as changing the word "Eat" to "Use". For some reason, my brain has sometimes misinterpreted that. Whoops. Great update, just be careful while you're getting used to it, all you happy campers out there! 

[jerry486]

15 hours ago, MrWolf said:

The sound of six steaks sizzling on the stove is just heavenly!g

Now try two pots with water and 4 steaks, full kitchen!

[Carbon]

 I have to say that the weight of the pot is highly problematic, particularly that it is really the only method of getting substantial amounts of water in a reasonable time frame. Like we didn't have a struggle with weight management already and now we have to lug around an additional 2kg of metal to achieve the same result.

 I know I'm going against the grain here, and I hate to be anything but supportive of the team, but why such minutiae with cooking? What benefit does this new mechanic bring to the game? I suppose I can see the appeal from a sim-like perspective, but is this kind of mundane activity really what we want? A survival game cum cooking sim? What's next? Chopping wood with alternating mouse clicks? Sewing with figure-eight movements? Fishing with jiggling? Panning the water from toilets? Pulling open drawers and cabinets? Is anything that currently has a simple filling circle a candidate for interactive granularity?

 To be clear, I'm not against new ideas and mechanics, but this just feels misguided and I truly hope this isn't indicative of the direction of the game moving forward. There are far more meaningful things that could be implemented it seems a shame to have taken such a macro on one aspect that was in no way broken or lacking. Cooking is now laborious and tedious while before it was unremarkable in and of itself; it was a just a suitable means to an end.

 You want cooking? Fine. Here. A gift that keeps punishing.

 Mea culpa.

[thekillergreece]

I like the cooking mechanic.

[nicko]

9 minutes ago, Carbon said:

 I have to say that the weight of the pot is highly problematic, particularly that it is really the only method of getting substantial amounts of water in a reasonable time frame. Like we didn't have a struggle with weight management already and now we have to lug around an additional 2kg of metal to achieve the same result.

 I know I'm going against the grain here, and I hate to be anything but supportive of the team, but why such minutiae with cooking? What benefit does this new mechanic bring to the game? I suppose I can see the appeal from a sim-like perspective, but is this kind of mundane activity really what we want? A survival game cum cooking sim? What's next? Chopping wood with alternating mouse clicks? Sewing with figure-eight movements? Fishing with jiggling? Panning the water from toilets? Pulling open drawers and cabinets? Is anything that currently has a simple filling circle a candidate for interactive granularity?

 To be clear, I'm not against new ideas and mechanics, but this just feels misguided and I truly hope this isn't indicative of the direction of the game moving forward. There are far more meaningful things that could be implemented it seems a shame to have taken such a macro on one aspect that was in no way broken or lacking. Cooking is now laborious and tedious while before it was unremarkable in and of itself; it was a just a suitable means to an end.

 You want cooking? Fine. Here. A gift that keeps punishing.

 Mea culpa.

there are cans you can use that weigh much less to  boil water afaik.

Also I see the cooking mechanic great, you can throw on a steak or two go do other stuff.

[Carbon]

1 minute ago, nicko said:

there are cans you can use that weigh much less to  boil water afaik.

 This still doesn't address the main point of my post and I did cover the return-on-investment dichotomy somewhat indirectly in my opening sentence, but indeed, the can. A chance to repeat the actions and manual waiting to get the water you need for the day. But you can multitask! Until I have a watch that tells me when an hour has passed so my precious can isn't reduced to stove-top slag, then I'd best be babysitting.

 I won't be posting any more about this. I don't want to be a downer, nor do I want to heap negativity. I've had my say and I am not trying to be divisive or start a argument. I fully understand that many of you - the vast majority - are enjoying this aspect and I'm honestly glad you are. Peace.

[nicko]

Who really carries heavy cooking pots around with them! so that part is fine for me.

Melting Snow and boiling water Times to do that, well yes I think that needs tweaking. Which I'm sure it will be.

[greggbert]

I'm still getting used to the new mechanics but am finding a couple of things that might need tweaking:

Problem:  Most cooking areas have 2 surfaces and even in a pot, venison takes over and hour to make.  The old way you could cook 3 venison in 1 hour, now it takes a little over an hour to cook 2 of them.   Increasing the cooking time by more than 30% seems like a lot.  But the bigger issue is that pot belly stoves become completely useless, since they have only one cooking surface.   Better off making a campfire beside the PB stove, since most of them are outside anyway.

Suggestion:  The cooking time should be relative to the temperature of the stove/campfire.  So if you get the fire very hot, it significantly reduces cooking times (and burning/evaporation times also of course!).  You could even increase this bonus for pot belly stoves and decrease it for the 4-6 burner stoves, since they are bigger.  That would provide a nice balance.

Problem:  Many times after harvesting, espeically rabbits and wolves, you end up with small pieces of meat  that are less than 1KG.  These take the FULL TIME to cook and do not fit in the can.   

Suggestion:  The cooking time should be relative to the size of the meat and any meats < 0.5 KG should be cookable in the can

As for the Pots/Cans, I don't mind that the pots are heavy.   I don't carry them around unless I'm planning to stay more than 1-2 nights in a shelter.  It doesn't affect my play style much.  I'm happy with that balance and their rarity.

[Ruruwawa]

Question:  Does leaving an empty pot (or recycled can) on the stove hurt it's condition?  In other words, do I need to remove the utensil when I'm using the fire for heat/light but not cooking?

Personally I really like the new cooking mechanic.  I've been reading a book an hour at a time, and shifting stuff on the stove before going back to my book.  Or mending, sharpening, repairing, organizing and breaking stuff down.  Overall the feeling is more time around the fire (in an enjoyable way) and less time wishing daylight would hurry up and get here so I could do tasks.

[Moonraker]

FYI: It's possible to Warm (cooking over longer time) both cups of drink i.e. coffee & canned food i.e. Pork 'n Beans simply by placing them in close proximity to the campfire, fire barrel, stove etc., not on the actual  cooking spot.

• Just select the drink or can in the Radial menu and Place close to the campfire. The can will be opened. Both will then show as Warming and the time remaining.
• It was around 50m but can be done at the same time as cooking on the cooking spots so saves them for other food or water.
• Cooking canned food this way left no danger of it overcooking and being ruin. On completion it shows Hot with no Remaining timer.
• The canned food or drink also remained hot as long as they were close to the fire indefinitely and the fire was active.
• Confirmed work also placing them next to a Fire Barrel so assume all cooking fires.
• The cup/ can doesn't have to be placed right up tight to the fire, seems to be within say 0.5m or so.
• If the fire goes out the the Warming can/ cup show Paused. if the fire is relit it continues.
• If you try to move the can/ cup it goes to your inventory. It can then be dropped or placed via the menu again.
• Making a Cup of Coffee from a Tin of Coffee on the cooking slot, then warming it is much faster to Hot, around 4m.

[MHDan]

I literally just found this out myself, I thought I was going mad when my stuff was still warming up. Very nice touch I think!

[Moonraker]

Cooking utensil decay loss

It's been confirmed that letting water boil dry in a recycled can can reduced it's decay value.

From a quick test using a Fire Barrel with a new character Level 1 Cooking;

• Taking the water once cooked normally there is no decay.
• Taking the water during the Remaining stage once cooked and before it reaches the end (depends on Cooking level, max. +20% longer remaining time at Level 5)., causes no decay.
• As soon at the water is boiled off it takes a decay hit.
• The decay hit seems to vary for a few tests between 5-10 decay lost on the can.
• Leaving an empty can on a fire for 3 hours resulted in no decay loss. 
• Cooking water in a can, letting it boil away then leave it for another 3 hours resulted in a loss of 5 decay, so it looks like the decay hit is instant as soon as the can boils dry but doesn't continue to lose decay over time.

It's not so crucial generally as Recycled Cans are pretty common to find and also, any tinned food opened and used will put a can in your inventory. It's just something to be aware of it you only carry one or two for a light load and cook a lot with them.

I haven't had a chance to test the Cooking Pot yet.