Missing Skill?

[Vince 49]

On day 97, I was carefully coming around a bend and, somehow unseen by me, a wolf attacked me at maximum struggle.  As I was regaining my senses, I was attacked by another wolf, again at maximum struggle.  That was it ... into the long dark.  I have observed that the intensity of wolf struggles can very greatly, from lasting a few seconds with only some torn clothing, to maximum intensity where you loose more than half your health and receive one or more blood loss wounds.  Right after the attacks, I thought well it was a good run and that's how it would be in the real world.  However, as I thought about it further, I decided maybe that's not so.

For reference I'm playing at Stalker level, mostly in Pleasant Valley, Mystery Lake, and Coastal Highway.  Almost every skill of importance in the game can advance, whether listed in your Journal (such as Fire Starting, Archery, or Mending) or not (such as sharpening).  In each case, as your skill increases, you chance of success increases.  As examples, your chance of a line breaking decreases as you skill in Ice Fishing increases and the percentage improvement in sharpness increases as you sharpening skill increases.  There's just one glaring omission: wolf struggle.  Over those 96 days, I killed about two dozen wolves; about half with a bow or rifle and half in struggles.  However, my chance of success in a struggle did not improve.  I posit that in the real world it would.

[Doc Feral]

As the resident knife fencing instructor I partially agree, but if you count your fights they're not really an impressive number. Compared with the amount of succesful attempts it takes to gain levels in other skills it's not enough to be relevant.

Apart from having a ready weapon (already wishlisted) I'd go cloak & dagger, heavily padding with a lot of leather, cloth or bunny skins my left arm to absorb bites and machinegun stabbing with the right. 

[Vince 49]

Hi Doc, I respectfully disagree on the significance of a dozen successful struggles.  I don't think it would be right to equate one fight to the death with a wolf to, say, one clothes mending.  The difficulty and consequences of the former are dramatically greater than that of the latter.  I do agree that maximum protection is a good idea.  'Best I remember, my protection was 38 at the time of my demise.  I had sacrificed some mobility for the best protection I could get.

 

[Doc Feral]

Of course a battle with a wolf is extremely significant, but every fight lasts a few seconds so it's hard to actually think and learn something from them. That said I admit wolves are not people and their attacks are probably not so varied, so it's just a "honing your instincts" thing.

[Riotintheair]

You improve your skill by not fighting wolves so much.

[Doc Feral]

And bears

 

[StrayCat]

2 hours ago, Riotintheair said:

You improve your skill by not fighting wolves so much.

Absolutely, 1000% upvoted.

[Doc Feral]

I just checked my current game. At least 40 wolves killed in melee combat. It's probably due to my heavy clothing with bear coat, wolf coat, deer pants and so on, but I think wolves don't do much damage recently (again, the damn werewolf was an exception).

[Dan_]

On 04/06/2018 at 11:00 AM, Vince 49 said:

I have observed that the intensity of wolf struggles can very greatly, from lasting a few seconds with only some torn clothing, to maximum intensity where you loose more than half your health and receive one or more blood loss wounds.  

If I recall correctly the variance in wolf letality is intentional. Although it may be frustrating and not realistic at times it is an absolute success as far as game balancing goes. Think about it, if you had a flat damage threshold and the same struggle intensity every single time or if your survivor would improve his ability after each fight, you could very well plan around it hedging on protection, being well rested and you simply would never die. Your demise you be even less likely after you trained enough wolf wrestling to a point where you're basically on voyageur and can repel a wolf bare handed.  You posit a good point because this would be realistic in a survival situation, but I'd argue it would also make for dull gameplay. 

Surprise wolf attacks are inevitable. I lost two 300+ days interloper runs coming out of fishing huts, wolf respawned and chomped on my half tired survivor which did not survive even wearing 43% protection clothing, both occasions. The beauty of this game is that you're never safe and starting again provides you the opportunity to apply all that knowledge of the last run again and again. Embrace death my friend! 

 

[Hotzn]

Someone has tested the variance of intensity/damage of wolf struggles and made a thread about it on these forums. Someone care to dig it out? And: There is no hidden skill for wolf struggles, and there shouldn't be either in my opinion. Because:

On 5.6.2018 at 7:48 AM, Riotintheair said:

You improve your skill by not fighting wolves so much.

 

[Vince 49]

For the record, I would be glad to not fight wolves so much--very glad.  The problem is, over something like 100 days, you can't avoid many encounters with wolves (at least on Stalker or Interloper).  If I see them in the distance, I go in a different direction.  If they sense me (bark), I sprint away whenever I can.  Also, if I drop a bait, often they will pick it up and walk way from me.  If that happens, I sprint away in the opposite direction as quickly as possible.  Unfortunately, there are times when you can't avoid a fight and if you get two, one immediately after the other, it's often a path into the Long Dark. 

In the real world, if you do something important multiple times and don't learn anything, maybe you're not paying enough attention.

[TerribleSurvivor]

I wouldnt recommend playing on Stalker tbh.

Stalker just places wolves everywhere which is really annoying to play with.

And even in my custom games where i play on minimum wolf population (just above none) i find wolves to be appearing too frequently thus being a constant annoyance to me. Wolves are just badly implemented in this game imo (at least regarding their behavior towards the player which just doesnt make sense at all...)

I would like to see an extended wolf fight system where the outcome depends on what weapon you are using and how effectivly you are bringing its power to bear.

[Vince 49]

@Dan brings up a good point.  Even if in the real world you would get a little better (at struggle) each time, it could make for a dull game.  As he points out, if you got significantly better, much of the risk of the game would be gone, making the game much less intense.  I can't argue with that.

Just the same, once you have a good bit of experience and your character has warm enough clothing (warmth + windproof bonuses = 30 or better), the primary risk is wolf attacks.  In areas where there is a lot of clutter and uneven terrain, you can be within the wolfs attack range without seeing him--no chance to run, drop a decoy, or shoot a ranged weapon.  The area near the Quonset gas station is a good example.  'Last game, I was attacked by a total of 6 wolves, all within 60 meters of the station.  All attacks were struggles (where I won the first 5 and died from #6).

Success in so much of the game depends on skill and understanding the game mechanics, like @TerribleSurvivor, I hope Hinterland can come up with a solution that makes wolf struggles less dependent on luck, without ruining the game.