Bow Drills Please

[SticksandBerries]

Sorry im on the wish list so much but this is basically the only game I play and all you can do now is keep making it better right? Anywho, in late game once you run out of fire starting materials you are pretty well screwed. I get that you want to force exploration, but you should be able survive in one area longer than your matches or firestriker let you if you ask me. Theres this thing called a bow drill ive made a few and actually managed to start a fire with one once lol. Its basically a miniature bow and you get a straight 1 ft long shaved stick and press it against the outside of the string of the bow drill then press and twist so its pretty much looped around the stick, not really trying to go into too much detail on the rest but basically you need two wood chocks; one big, one small. Use the small one to hold the stick upright between the bottom larger one where u will have a notch carved with a small amount of tinder, dry moss works kick ass, and with one hand on the bow drill you move it back and forth while holding the stick in place and if you are either super persistant or super lucky you can actually make a fire like that . You can prob google it for more details, but in game if you had say a green sapling and 2 String, 1 tinder and a stone (in place on small wood chock) plus your fuel i think it would be a nice addition to the game to be able to craft a bow drill and make a fire, especially for us TWM guys.

[deathbydanish]

I'm sure this has been brought up before and don't quote me on this but I think in the previous discussions it was considered antithetical to one of the core design points.

With that being said, I wouldn't have any problem with it, I'd even frame it as something you could learn from a character in story mode (say someone from the First Nations).

[Fuarian]

On 12/28/2017 at 4:29 PM, deathbydanish said:

I'm sure this has been brought up before and don't quote me on this but I think in the previous discussions it was considered antithetical to one of the core design points.

With that being said, I wouldn't have any problem with it, I'd even frame it as something you could learn from a character in story mode (say someone from the First Nations).

How is it Antithetical? It fits perfectly with the core design of the game. It just may be a little overpowered/unbalancing. But that can be fixed with tweaking. 

Maybe make them have a low durability and make them have a long fire starting time. 

[TerribleSurvivor]

Bow drills usually don't work with moist wood. So this could be a possible balance parameter. You can only use a bow drill if you have a dried piece of wood. That would require you to dry a piece of (cedar) wood several days before having a usable fire source with your bow drill!

[Revantulet]

I see how the bow drill could be OP and prevent folks from exploring, but you could balance this by saying if you get to day 1000 or so you finally figure out how to use it.

Also I saw a guy on Naked and Afraid try to make fire with a bow drill ALL DAY before he finally got a fire-- like 5 hours of effort.   I suppose if it were hard enough to to do it wouldn't be OP

[omoon66]

Yes, for balancing on early interloper, I would think they could have it so after you get level 5 fire starting so you can make said bow drill. If they did that (coupled possibly with @TerribleSurvivor‘s dry fuel idea), it could be pretty balanced. I’m not too against the idea

Edited December 31, 2017 by omoon66

[mystifeid]

On 12/29/2017 at 5:00 AM, SticksandBerries said:

I get that you want to force exploration, but you should be able survive in one area longer than your matches or firestriker let you if you ask me.

Nothing against the idea of alternate fire starting devices but what about using the magnifying glass.

Also check these stats out - 200 days in Interloper with 35 fires.

 

Edited December 31, 2017 by mystifeid

[cekivi]

Welcome to the forums @SticksandBerries

[Mroz4k]

Bow drills. I dont like that idea. Sadly I am in a minority. Reason why I dont want it is because it would be unbalancing. However, I dont mind them if some core elements are kept - Level 4 firestarting at minimum, tinder is mandatory regardless skill, and requires completedly windless options - even if you were in wind protected area, it would not be enough if the wind was blowing around it. Windless, or no bueno. It would also take a long while to start a fire this way, and even with high fire starting skill, the chance to fail would be rather high.

It wouldnt really need to have a low durability - I guess the bow and the spinner both have pretty long life, especially if used properly - the desk it what goes away quickly - but in this case, the "desk" would be the "fuel" part of the fire, like cedar or fir wood, and it would be consumed by starting the fire. So I dont think the durability needs to be that low.

 

I am only going to mention the Flint and steel, which is far more reliable and renewable way of fire making in the TLD conditions, and would actually add something new to the game  - since it could be forged.

 

[deathbydanish]

On 12/29/2017 at 7:25 PM, Fuarian said:

How is it Antithetical? It fits perfectly with the core design of the game. It just may be a little overpowered/unbalancing. But that can be fixed with tweaking. 

Maybe make them have a low durability and make them have a long fire starting time. 

Just going off of prior experience on these boards, it seems that the feeling is that if you can get a renewable resource that can create endless fire, it would somehow detract from the game. I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just saying a lot of people may come at you with that mentality.

[Boulay22]

When you know what you are doing its ´’ easy ‘’ . Ive started one bow drill fire in like 25min last fall ... so sorry but 5hours like mention earlier seens a bit far fetched .

[dragonslayer587]

On 1/2/2018 at 3:01 PM, Mroz4k said:

Bow drills. I dont like that idea. Sadly I am in a minority. Reason why I dont want it is because it would be unbalancing.

I dont like it either... it is very difficult IMHO to make fire with it, especially in winter and snowy places... but I dont mind if it is added to game! Though I would rather prefer the flint and steel

On 1/2/2018 at 3:01 PM, Mroz4k said:

I am only going to mention the Flint and steel, which is far more reliable and renewable way of fire making in the TLD conditions, and would actually add something new to the game  - since it could be forged.

I would love to see a flint and steel! Hard to use early in game with (maybe?) fire starting level requirement and crafted at forge... that would make it pretty balanced and help a lot in long term survival without depending too much on the mag glass

[cekivi]

On ‎2018‎-‎01‎-‎10 at 10:54 PM, Boulay22 said:

When you know what you are doing its ´’ easy ‘’ . Ive started one bow drill fire in like 25min last fall ... so sorry but 5hours like mention earlier seens a bit far fetched .

Having never tried to light a fire with a bow drill I suspect I'd be in the "5 hours" category

[ThudYeo]

I started a fire with a piece of flint and a buck knife when I was ten, guys. Almost cut my fingers off, but I did it. It takes a knack, or epic luck, but it isn't that difficult if a kid with next to no common sense could figure it out. Just have your tinder RIGHT THERE, get a spark, and you're set.

[cekivi]

On ‎2018‎-‎01‎-‎31 at 12:31 AM, ThudYeo said:

I started a fire with a piece of flint and a buck knife when I was ten, guys. Almost cut my fingers off, but I did it. It takes a knack, or epic luck, but it isn't that difficult if a kid with next to no common sense could figure it out. Just have your tinder RIGHT THERE, get a spark, and you're set.

Totally agree. But there's already the magnifying lens so adding more "infinite" fire making tools is unlikely. 

[dragonslayer587]

On 1/2/2018 at 4:23 PM, cekivi said:

Totally agree. But there's already the magnifying lens so adding more "infinite" fire making tools is unlikely

Tecnically it is an infonite fire making tool but if it is cloudly weather and/or storms u are basically screwed so in practice it is not infinite... 

[benadryl]

This is a good idea. Let the player craft with a stone, stick, and string. So as not to break the early game difficulty, the player only learns recipe at Fire Starting skill lvl 5. Wears out after 5 uses, requires birch bark as tinder and produces a stone when recycled.

[Buckets524]

What if it had only a 5% base success chance, only marginally improving with accelerant and proper tinder. Then it could also have a much longer preparation time before success/failure. If it took like half an hour game time, you would freeze pretty quickly if you didn’t plan ahead.

i think it should be granted early on since matchless starts are impossible (if they can’t be found the first few places you check and you have starting gear set to “low.”) it’s limited effectiveness / reliability / durability would then make it obsolete once matches were acquired.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Buckets524

[Croaven]

This is something I have wanted to see since the day I purchased the game, and frankly, anyone who thinks this would be op has never made or used a bow drill. It would not be hard to balance it out.

First you would need to find the right kind of wood which currently would only be salvaged wood since you can't use cedar or fir wood to make them. (If someone has had success making a bow drill with conifer wood please correct me but I have been unsuccessful in creating a working one out of wood with a high pitch content.) 

Second, they are time consuming to make with the types of tools you have access to in the game. You need a block of wood for the base, the drill, sinew, and bone or a stone to apply pressure to the drill. All of these would have to be found and shaped to fit their purpose. Make it so each individual part has to be crafted before combining them together.

Third, they are difficult to use even if you know what you are doing. You absolutely have to have tinder to start a fire with a bow drill. You should not be able to use one in game without it. It would not work with just kindling. It also takes a great deal of effort which would translate to calorie usage in game. It would also have to have a low success rate even at higher skill levels (60%-70% max).  And the fire starting time would be much longer than any other fire starting means. 

Fourth, they are heavy. This would add a decent amount of weight to your already overloaded pack and would force you to make some difficult inventory decisions.

Fifth, you could easily balance this by making it an item that can only be effectively used at the highest skill levels, and even then make it have low success rates. 

Sixth, It can also be like the other crafted tools where it can't be repaired. So each time it breaks you have to go through the time consuming process of hunting down materials and making another one.

It may take some tweaking but it would not be difficult to make this a balanced part of the game. 

Edited April 19, 2020 by Croaven

[Moll]

Bow drill should be available from start, exhausting and it should be high time consumption activity. Like fishig you will set your time trying to.

With your skill, your chances are better.

Two ways of making fire:

1. You need some cedar wood & bow & rock: (more  effective - because rotary style, but you damage your bow), this style is faster for dire situations:

 

2. Cured sample & cedar wood (less effective linear oscillating style), this style is for starters. Way less effective but it does job done. 2 tinders required.