Import/Export Custom Settings from/to file (edited)

[TerribleSurvivor]

Just as simple as the title describes it.

Make an im-/export feature so players can save their custom settings reliably.

The current "code" feature is not usable* because it seems to be case sensitive and contains non-alphanumeric characters (I wouldn´t recommend this*!).

The code entry field only displays Capital Case Characters.

Plus the generated code is not copyable from the game´s UI (very* unconvenient!!).

Plus the game seems to mess up the information given from the code so some settings are not imported as they were saved into the code even when typed in correctly (BAAAAAD! FIX THIS ASAP).

Let the player save/load his custom settings to a file via the game´s UI to make it user-proof* like any UI feature should be.

This really looks like the coder* has ignored all rules about Usability Engineering for UIs!

Ok, that fills up todays rant-meter.

(I removed all harsh words - marked the edits with a * character - I really used the wrong tone and i want people to know where i did )

[Fuarian]

Yeah, it's real inconvienient.

[Patrick Carlson]

@TerribleSurvivor We're aware of the issue with the displaying of upper and lower-case letters - but if you type it in correctly, it should still work fine. It will register the correct keystroke. And while we always like to hear feedback on new features, if you could share your thoughts without cursing or calling things "utter trash" we'd appreciate it. Thank you. 

[TerribleSurvivor]

I am always trying to use the best wording for a succinct description.

If it wasn´t THAT bad then i sure as hell wouldn´t have cursed on it. But the way it is implemented is an absolute no-go! This is nothing you can present a customer that is paying you his (probably) hard earned money, may the rest of the game be as good as it is now! This is the way i have been taught coding and presentation to the customer. I think i just spoke out what a lot of your customers thought when they first used this "code" feature! So no offense intended

[Mroz4k]

Dude, chill. It JUST came out.

This is the type of issues most games have in their new updates - there was NO need at all to use that kind of language at all.

6 hours ago, TerribleSurvivor said:

I think i just spoke out what a lot of your customers thought when they first used this "code" feature! So no offense intended

I am absolutely sure you were alone in that regard. I mean, think of what you did - went on a rampage rant over a 2 days fresh update which brought in 90% most requiested community content, and here you are, insulting someone´s hard work because you werent delivered a perfect update right away... a little patience wouldnt hurt next time. And words like "work of a trainee" are insults, meant or not.

(I get the frustration is sometimes difficult to manage, its the same for me - I reccomend to take some time off after writing a rant, cool down and reading it again - might be you will feel a lot differently after doing that)

Yes, the new system has some issues. I am sure it will be fixed sooner rather then later.

As for the export/import of setting directly to file - not a bad idea, but I am not sure if its going to fly. Dont think the Hinterland want people to really meddle around with settings in those folders.

I think the URL is generally better idea assuming its issues are fixed, and there comes an option to copy paste it in and out of the actual game. It is much easier to share a URL then a program, since you dont have to upload/download anything. It also prevents anyone from putting up "settings" online for download and hiding a virus with it... cant do that on a URL.

I am all for the export/import if its a folder specifically for Custom difficulties. Kind of like saves work in some other games like Fallout NV - when there is a specific folder for the "Saves" which is by default saved into documents, and is easily accessible. Pretty sure many people would not have to be happy if they had to copy different settings into some of the original game content folders, hidden by default somewhere deep in Program files, for many people under the Steamapps too.

[TerribleSurvivor]

For goodness sake, here comes my edit (removed harsh words).

Regarding the term "hard work":

It´s better called wasted ressources because this feature was planned and designed BADLY. It is not user-proof, it is not intuitive and it is not convenient to use.

Working hard on a faulty feature doesn´t raise its value at all. It is just a waste of time that is unnecessary at all!

Hinterland as a professional game studio should know that it is way easier to kill the hype with a faulty feature rather than keeping it up with a lot of goodies!

(I will try to follow this rule of thumb next time. Might be helpful!)

[Patrick Carlson]

@TerribleSurvivor The Custom Toolbox is brand-new. As we do with all new features, over the entire life of the game at this point, we'll take in feedback from players and adjust accordingly, if need-be. Given the range of platforms we support, and sheer amount of custom settings we added, we felt the 20-character code was a simple and elegant approach. 

And this issue with the upper/lowercase letters not displaying correctly was fixed in last night's hotfix, so you should be good to go there. Thanks. 

[TerribleSurvivor]

Interesting approach. However, i hope that everyone is happy now

[StrayCat]

The code is a good an innovative idea.

For those who have problems with it, just grab a pen and paper. There is a life outside of ctrlC/ctrlV.

[Fuarian]

1 hour ago, StrayCat said:

The code is a good an innovative idea.

For those who have problems with it, just grab a pen and paper. There is a life outside of ctrlC/ctrlV.

That's what I did.... I just wrote down all my codes on a .txt and I'll share a collection of them w/ the community once I feel fit. It's not that hard to type a few letters and numbers,,,

[Mroz4k]

I personally like the fact that the URL code is somewhat safer to use, and very simple to share then an actual file. But I wonder if it becomes less convenient if more customization options come in. Probably not, though, too lazy to calculate the variations.

[cekivi]

6 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

I personally like the fact that the URL code is somewhat safer to use, and very simple to share then an actual file. But I wonder if it becomes less convenient if more customization options come in. Probably not, though, too lazy to calculate the variations.

Likely not. There are millions of possible combinations allowed with just the characters currently used. 

[TerribleSurvivor]

20 hours ago, StrayCat said:

The code is a good an innovative idea.

For those who have problems with it, just grab a pen and paper. There is a life outside of ctrlC/ctrlV.

It is not difficult either to use a textfield for code display. And pen and paper is really outdated. We are not living in the 19th century anymore.

[stratvox]

1 hour ago, TerribleSurvivor said:

It is not difficult either to use a textfield for code display. And pen and paper is really outdated. We are not living in the 19th century anymore.

Going to put on the pedant hat for a moment. There is no way that pen and paper are outdated. The longest lasting digital media has a lifespan of maybe 25 years. Pen and paper have exemplars that are millenia old. If you want knowledge to last, you commit it to pen and paper.

I recommend perusing this hoary old internet joke: http://rebirthofreason.com/Spirit/Jokes/62.shtml

 

[cekivi]

2 hours ago, stratvox said:

Going to put on the pedant hat for a moment. There is no way that pen and paper are outdated. The longest lasting digital media has a lifespan of maybe 25 years. Pen and paper have exemplars that are millenia old. If you want knowledge to last, you commit it to pen and paper.

I recommend perusing this hoary old internet joke: http://rebirthofreason.com/Spirit/Jokes/62.shtml

 

A very good joke indeed

[StrayCat]

11 hours ago, TerribleSurvivor said:

It is not difficult either to use a textfield for code display. And pen and paper is really outdated. We are not living in the 19th century anymore.

Using a bow & arrows to hunt is outdated.
Using a coal to draw a map is outdated.
Making clothes from furs is outdated.
No problem with this in the game ? You don't ask for an automatic assault rifle, a smartphone with google maps, and the latest Arc'terix clothes ? So there should be no problem with a random pen & paper irl.

[TerribleSurvivor]

18 hours ago, stratvox said:

Going to put on the pedant hat for a moment. There is no way that pen and paper are outdated. The longest lasting digital media has a lifespan of maybe 25 years. Pen and paper have exemplars that are millenia old. If you want knowledge to last, you commit it to pen and paper.

I recommend perusing this hoary old internet joke: http://rebirthofreason.com/Spirit/Jokes/62.shtml

 

It is outdated since Gutenberg invented the printing press https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Gutenberg#Printing_press.

I do not see any reason to write down anything with pen and paper anymore apart from personal things like love letters or your diary. A stupid game code is nothing personal at all. It doesn´t have to be done via pen and paper... Ah, by the way, books are generally manufactured without having to use a single pen.

7 hours ago, StrayCat said:

Using a bow & arrows to hunt is outdated.
Using a coal to draw a map is outdated.
Making clothes from furs is outdated.
No problem with this in the game ? You don't ask for an automatic assault rifle, a smartphone with google maps, and the latest Arc'terix clothes ? So there should be no problem with a random pen & paper irl.

Using bow and arrow and drawing with charcoal is done via a single click in this game. That is even more convenient than Ctrl+C/Ctrl+V. Making clothes fom fur is still considered fashionable in parts of the world. You cannot compare the setting of TLD with real life. That´s just stupid.

[stratvox]

Check out the lifespan of hand written books vs printed books. Actually, I'll just tell you; hand written books exist that are at least three to four times older than the oldest printed book. Two, you're moving your goalposts... you weren't talking about pen and paper, you're talking about printed reading material vs. digital reading material. Trying to move your goalposts is not a good look. You should stop it.

Oh, another thing, and this is very interesting from the copyright perspective. It turns you that if you hand copy a book using pen and paper, you're not violating copyright in any way and are free to sell that creation to someone else.

I'm going to risk mod wrath here and point out that you're coming across as both petulant and demanding... petulant about the fact that things in this software don't work exactly the way you want them to, and demanding that the people who do own the game change it so that it works the way you want it to. You don't own the game. You own a copy of the game. Any enhancements made to the game after purchase are basically gravy from the people who do own the game.

The stupid part is I fundamentally agree with you here. Every PC platform that the game supports (Windows, Mac, linux) has a clipboard, and clipboard support for the codes should be easy to implement and would be very nice to have. I was even going to post and ask. But I wasn't going to post and ask while criticising their character, competence, and care for their user base. I also understand very well that it's a small team and there are a lot of competing priorities here, and that supporting a feature that is not necessarily available across all platforms (as I don't do consoles and I have no idea whether "clipboard" support exists for those platforms or whether it is easy to implement) I can understand that they may have higher priorities than implementing clipboard support for PC platforms. I understand that some folks have had disappearing buildings along with all their contents in their games... which sounds like a serious bug, and I'm willing to bet that maybe just maybe Hinterland has decided that fixing this is more important than clipboard support for difficulty codes, or even for creating a fine-grained level customizer that goes far far beyond messing with the values fed into the initial randomizers when games get started.

@Patrick Carlson: I'm pinging you so you can let me know if I've gone over the line here.

[cekivi]

I'm sure @Patrick Carlson will weigh in later but I will as well.

Conversation and disagreement is good. Personal attacks are not whether it is directed at a member of the dev team or a member of the forums. @Troxism: there is a difference between disliking pen and paper and equating it to being a lesser form of communication. You may dislike it but there are millions around the world who still enjoy using pen and paper and may even prefer it over computer word processing. 

@stratvox: you did kinda go over the line. 

 

[Mroz4k]

The whole argument about printing and pen writing is stupid. For starters, just because there is another way to do something doesn't mean that the other, earlier method is "outdated" - pen has its advantages. For starters, it requires very little in terms of equipment from you. You don't need a print for it. So, say you want to keep a journal going, to document your, let's say, ventures through the wild. Will you drag a print with you everywhere? Or will you only actually write the journal on a print when you find one? Nah, you will use pen and paper.

 

The argument about written books rather than printed being much older is stupid, sorry to say but that is just a ridiculous claim. Of course, they are older. Handwritten books were around for that much longer than printed books. That is not an argument as to "handwritten books" can survive longer. We all know this depends on number of factors, mostly on material from which the books were made. Similar inks were made, in most cases. So, if same materials were used and same care for those books, it wouldn't matter if they are written by pen or print.

As for the comment on the text based notes - the way I understand it, if those existed for TLD, it would be relatively easy to adjust certain settings yourself. But, more importantingly, it would give the more nosy players access to some level of information on game mechanics. And that is why it probably doesnt exist. Hinterland doesnt want players to know everything perfectly.  They want players to learn things through trial and error. That is my guess why there is no notepad for game settings here with TLD.