suggestion Extended wolf fight system

[TerribleSurvivor]

Hello fellow Survivors,

an idea just flashed into my mind thinking about the battle system when encountering a wolf.

Currently, it`s just "click as fast as you can" and depending on your condition you will win/lose a fight with wolf injured/bleeding.

It doesn´t really matter (my experience) what weapon you choose and i would like to see the battle system extended a little more.

This means that "click as fast as you can" stays as basic mechanic, but, additionally,

there could be something like special moves or an altered fighting system (depending on your weapon).

The main purpose of this idea is to add new fighting variables to a wolf fight since wolves sometimes appear out of nowhere leaving you little to no chance to react.

Of course, this shouldn`t make wolf fights more attractive or even desirable but in case it happens, it should have more variety so the player can make a distinct choice.

Depending on what choice he makes he will suffer a certain penalty being equivalent to what you can suffer in a conventional wolf fight.

Here is what came in my mind.

 

1. Fist:

Would stay the way it is now but you can ram it into the wolf`s throat causing the fight bar to be filled by a certain (huge) amount of "points".

If you cannot fill the fight bar to its peak you will lose all your progress and the ability to do this again.

Regardless whether it fails or not this move will obviously result in bleeding, infection risk and a sprained wrist.

 

2. Hunting Knife:

Could be extended with a more skill-based battle system where you can aim for targets like the snout, eyes, ears and throat.

I am pretty sure that major damage to the wolf`s sensory organs will make him rethinking his choice to charge you.

That means, if you hit a critical area, it will fill the fight bar by a good amount of points. If you don`t, it counts as a single click-attack.

Thus it will be a good way to quickly scare off a wolf but requires you to aim precisely.

Could be a good way to be able to scare off wolves if you are at low condition where all other weapons would fail in most of the cases.

 

3. Hatchet:

I don`t see anything that could be added here. Can stay the way it is now.

 

4. Prybar:

A more defensive weapon. This is would be a completly different battle system.

So, when using the prybar`s alternative fight-mode you will not simply hit the wolf with it but you will start to wrestle with it instead.

While wrestling you will try to throw the wolf off. When thrown off you will need to beat the wolf up in order to scare it off (or kill it occasionally).

Otherwise he will charge again immediately and you will need to throw him off again (or scare him off using the conventional battle system).

Successfully throwing it off requires you to not have any sprained limbs and being at good condition (fatigue, health) as well as your prybar being in a good shape.

If your prybar is in a bad shape it will break and you will lose this fight. If you are in bad shape you will lose this fight.

If you lose you will fall unconscious and the wolf will prey on you the same way it is now plus your prybar having lost a lot of condition (or being broken).

The outcome of this kind of fight is that you will suffer little to no afflications and condition loss at all but the prybar will lose a remarkable amount of condition

as well as you losing a good amount of fatigue.

 

5. Heavy Hammer:

I don´t see anything alterable with this weapon. Low-skill, click-only, blunt weapon that just stays the way it is now.

 

Okay, that`s been quite a lot theory crafting.

I am aware that this idea likely won`t enter the game the way it is described above but it could make the game more interesting.

Is it a good idea or why is it utter crap and should be doomed to oblivion asap?

Feel free to share your thoughts about this idea with me!

[Mroz4k]

Ugh, no. To all of this. First of all, doing a bit more research on wolf struggles would probably help you learn about the facts of the wolf struggles.

First of all, its is not "click as fast as you can" but instead "click as regularly as you can" - this is, I believe, to reward players who were able to keep cool head during a wolf struggle. 
Many factors play a role in wolf struggles. Exhaustion (this maybe doesnt play role anymore, based on recent tests by Timber Wolf), the weapon you chose (hatchets are by far the most effective), how regularly you click, what the condition of your selected weapon is, if the wolf was hurt (shot) to begin with, if its the Aurora, etc. It is most definitedly not as simple as you think.

Now, for suggestion itself: I dont like the idea of making wolf struggles so different. It is a mechanic you are ideally supposed to avoid altogether. I dont like brutality on animals, and luckily, I dont think this idea in itself has any chance of being added since the animations would be more brutal, which puts the game past its ESRB ratings they recently got...

Not to mention this would be a LOT of development/design work for a single mechanic of the game.

While it might be right that it would be great to reward players a bit more for doing something rather then just clicking, at the same time, to think that one would be able to stab certain areas with precision while struggling for his life is not very likely. So, I dont see it as particularly realistic. Same with "limitiations be having something sprained - if you were down on your back, struggling for your life, you would be swimming in so much adrenaline that even if you had a fractured hand, you would be able to use it to defend your life very well.

[TerribleSurvivor]

Regarding research:

I really like the ability in this game to get to know mechanics by experience. I try to avoid as much conventional research as i possibly can since this would destroy a lot of my game experience. But you are certainly right, i might not have had the best knowledge base about wolf fights. But it`s not like i was thinking that you are simply having to click. I already assumed that a lot more variables are involved into wolf fight mechanics.

And yes, i absolutly agree that wolf fights should be avoided as much as possible altogether and penalties for getting into one should be high as usual regardless how you scare the wolf off. It would be great though to have different ways in doing so in my humble opinion.

About violence on animals. You are shooting wolves, you are killing them, you are letting them bleed out in this game. These are very violent ways to die and definitly not desirable for anything alive. If you don`t like the idea of hurting wolves i do not really understand why you are playing this game (apart from pilgrim difficulty). I am just not getting the point about brutality. It`s not like i am suggesting that you should be able to perform random violence on animals. This game is about survival in wild nature and it`s completly natural that you are forced to brutally defend yourself by all means in order to not die yourself. Correct me if i misunderstood you though.

Of course and i mentioned it already this is just an idea. And since i am programmer myself i know that this will be something for the long term, a low priority idea. Should have mentioned it...

Anyways, thanks for your feedback!

[Timber Wolf]

Welcome to the forums, @TerribleSurvivor!

I can definitely understand your interest in seeing the wolf struggle system becoming more complex, since I have run quite a lot of tests.  Take a look at the results here - .393 - .426 - 1.14.

I wouldn't mind seeing a little more variety in the factors that determine the outcome, including more than just clicking - from a game play point of view.  However, as @Mroz4k pointed out, this type of change would require a relatively large amount of time and resources for a small studio.
 

2 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

First of all, its is not "click as fast as you can" but instead "click as regularly as you can" - this is, I believe, to reward players who were able to keep cool head during a wolf struggle. 

I'm not sure I can agree with this.  I've used different macro speeds in my tests, and the faster the better.  I've also tried a slower, rhythmic approach and it didn't work out well at all.  I think this will be the focus of my next group of tests.

[Fuarian]

4 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

Ugh, no. To all of this. First of all, doing a bit more research on wolf struggles would probably help you learn about the facts of the wolf struggles.

First of all, its is not "click as fast as you can" but instead "click as regularly as you can" - this is, I believe, to reward players who were able to keep cool head during a wolf struggle. 
Many factors play a role in wolf struggles. Exhaustion (this maybe doesnt play role anymore, based on recent tests by Timber Wolf), the weapon you chose (hatchets are by far the most effective), how regularly you click, what the condition of your selected weapon is, if the wolf was hurt (shot) to begin with, if its the Aurora, etc. It is most definitedly not as simple as you think.

Now, for suggestion itself: I dont like the idea of making wolf struggles so different. It is a mechanic you are ideally supposed to avoid altogether. I dont like brutality on animals, and luckily, I dont think this idea in itself has any chance of being added since the animations would be more brutal, which puts the game past its ESRB ratings they recently got...

Not to mention this would be a LOT of development/design work for a single mechanic of the game.

While it might be right that it would be great to reward players a bit more for doing something rather then just clicking, at the same time, to think that one would be able to stab certain areas with precision while struggling for his life is not very likely. So, I dont see it as particularly realistic. Same with "limitiations be having something sprained - if you were down on your back, struggling for your life, you would be swimming in so much adrenaline that even if you had a fractured hand, you would be able to use it to defend your life very well.

Fatigue does still play a role in it. 

[Mroz4k]

2 hours ago, Fuarian said:

Fatigue does still play a role in it. 

I believe so as well but recent tests done by Timber Wolf seems to indicate othervise.  And I believe those tests.

[Fuarian]

6 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

I believe so as well but recent tests done by Timber Wolf seems to indicate othervise.  And I believe those tests.

How so? Because when I'm fully rested I seem to fight them off quicker than when tired. I always use the hatchet and the difference in speed is clear.

[Mroz4k]

7 hours ago, Fuarian said:

How so? Because when I'm fully rested I seem to fight them off quicker than when tired. I always use the hatchet and the difference in speed is clear.

I thought so as well, but the newest tests by Timber Wolf seems to suggest othervise - because regardless of exhaustion, the condition lost in those tests was roughly the same.

 

[cekivi]

Welcome to the forums @TerribleSurvivor 

[TerribleSurvivor]

Thank you for greeting me at the Forums @Timber Wolf and @cekivi

Now to topic:

I don`t see any discussion evolving or revolving arround my suggestion so i would label it as dead.

I think this thread can be closed right now!

 

Thank you for your feedback anyways (and for your nice greetings!)