Guns! Guns! Guns!

[TROY]

I'm curious to know if anyone has ever found more than one copy of this book in a single game, duplicate bugs not included. I know there was a time that multiple copies would spawn in the same place, but has anyone ever found two, in different locations, on any difficulty?

[shade_grey]

I've found more than one in several games. All in stalker mode. Don't know about the other modes. In the few games I've played in interloper, I've only ever stored rifle books "in case I find the time."

I'm playing 100+ days stalker at the moment and I'm current in the process of reading my second copy of "Guns! Guns! Guns!" I'm on my way to the summit of TWM, maybe I can find a 3rd copy in the cave up there. If that happens, I'm pretty sure that will be the first time I've ever found three. I'll post it here if I do find another one.

[Mroz4k]

I havent, but I admit I dont usually throughly explore most of my games, I tend to create new games and shelve them or delete them early on because I made them to test something, and if I do play, I explore everything everywhere and hoard it all - but in those fewer games, I never found more then a single copy.

I have found several copies of the "shooting guide" books in game - usually find about 3 in whole world. Kind of unfair, tho - the Guns, guns, guns! seems to be integral in boosting the marksmanship to level 5 (never reached it myself, I dont like rifles in game in general, bowsman through and through)

[WanderingPalm]

I don't think I have on Voyageur, but I tend to not read the titles of my skill books... I'll start paying attention to them now. Is there only one book title per skill? Like, is The Frozen Angler (I think that's what it's called) the only fishing skill book?

On the other hand, exploring only two regions has yielded a whopping six guns (and a flare gun).

[TROY]

2 hours ago, WanderingPalm said:

I don't think I have on Voyageur, but I tend to not read the titles of my skill books... I'll start paying attention to them now. Is there only one book title per skill? Like, is The Frozen Angler (I think that's what it's called) the only fishing skill book?

On the other hand, exploring only two regions has yielded a whopping six guns (and a flare gun).

There is only one book title per skill, except for Rifle. Rifle firearm has two.  Frontier Shooting Guide, which you will nomally find 3 or 4 of, and Guns, Guns, Guns!  Which I've never seen more than one of, which is why I started this thread. 

 

[Simone Else]

i found 2 of them in a voyager game, one in mystery lake in the lake overlook cave,  and i got another one  in pleasant valley at 3 strikes farmstead, i have come to the conclusion though that the bow is the best weapon by far and that has become my priority in every game now is to get a bow and birch saplings asap.

 if you can make arrows and kill bunnies all day it will level you up pretty fast.  i actually stored my rifle when i had archery 5 because the bow is so dam good. 

im sure you knew this already though.... im just rambling on

 

[TROY]

On 9/14/2017 at 2:53 AM, Simone Else said:

i found 2 of them in a voyager game, one in mystery lake in the lake overlook cave,  and i got another one  in pleasant valley at 3 strikes farmstead, i have come to the conclusion though that the bow is the best weapon by far and that has become my priority in every game now is to get a bow and birch saplings asap.

 if you can make arrows and kill bunnies all day it will level you up pretty fast.  i actually stored my rifle when i had archery 5 because the bow is so dam good. 

im sure you knew this already though.... im just rambling on

 

I agree, and prefer the bow myself for everyday use.  It's quiet, light, and gives a much greater sense of accomplishment after having stalked and brought down an animal. 

[AZHockeyNut]

I play the bow all the time. Once I move to a new camp I clear it of bears with the rifle first then hunt with the bow

[Simone Else]

6 hours ago, AZHockeyNut said:

I play the bow all the time. Once I move to a new camp I clear it of bears with the rifle first then hunt with the bow

I was hunting a bear in Timberwolves mountain with a bow and expected to have to put a couple arrows in him and wait but dam if it didn't drop him in 1 arrow immediately.   critical hit maybe? I didn't expect it.

 

is there any info on damage from the rifle vs bow at lvl 5?I'd be curious to see it

[Hesha]

10 hours ago, TROY said:

I agree, and prefer the bow myself for everyday use.  It's quiet, light, and gives a much greater sense of accomplishment after having stalked and brought down an animal. 

Plus the bow skill is much easier to max out, which is kinda important with the bow becoming usable when crouched...

[AZHockeyNut]

I have one shot killed a bear with a bow it can be done in the face or a couple other spots. I tend to lure then to the fishing hut or under a tree I can climb then I can hit them easier 

[Hesha]

10 hours ago, AZHockeyNut said:

I have one shot killed a bear with a bow it can be done in the face or a couple other spots. I tend to lure then to the fishing hut or under a tree I can climb then I can hit them easier 

My MO as well. The bear from Misanthrope's island is close enough to that one fishing hut to shoot him and, if he charges you, to run into the hut and shoot him when he turns around to run away. If you shoot him from outside the hut, he will attack you again and you can once more shoot him, which more than likely will end him rightly.

[Mroz4k]

People still thinking that it makes a difference if you put one or more rounds/arrows into the prey...

Wiki is still pretty precise information source for the game - it does not matter whether you put a single arrow or ten of them into the animal.
When you hit animal, it will start bleeding. If you hit it again, into a body part that bleeds faster, it will reset the time remaining to bleed out based on that new wound. So, if you hit a bear into leg, you can hit him in the head again to make sure it bleeds out sooner, because leg takes forever... Also, each time you shoot the animal, you have a chance for a critical hit which kills the beast instantly. Now, bow has pretty poor crit chance but fast bleeding rates.

So, as long as you hit the prey once, it is a matter of time for it to bleed out. To save up your bow duration, or your invaluable bullets, one shot, one kill should be your habbit. 

[Hesha]

Well done, contradicting yourself within a single post.

2 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

People still thinking that it makes a difference if you put one or more rounds/arrows into the prey...

 

2 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

Also, each time you shoot the animal, you have a chance for a critical hit which kills the beast instantly.

*slow clap*

Thanks for being condescending on top of it.

[AZHockeyNut]

If the time it takes to bleed out means I can't find it to harvest it then it's a waste. If I don't get that arrow back it is a bigger waste. 

[Hesha]

32 minutes ago, AZHockeyNut said:

If the time it takes to bleed out means I can't find it to harvest it then it's a waste. If I don't get that arrow back it is a bigger waste. 

Shoot the animal once. Hold "space", select "campcraft", select "pass time", set to 2 hours and press "pass time". The animal will lie dead close to where you shot it.

(Most of the time 1 hour will do, but just in case, 2 hours will make sure it bleeds out while you pass time and animal movements are slowed down.)

[JACKROX_12234]

I've found several copies of the same books throughout the same region numerous times before.

[Simone Else]

7 hours ago, Hesha said:

Shoot the animal once. Hold "space", select "campcraft", select "pass time", set to 2 hours and press "pass time". The animal will lie dead close to where you shot it.

(Most of the time 1 hour will do, but just in case, 2 hours will make sure it bleeds out while you pass time and animal movements are slowed down.)

thats seems too cheesy for me, i feel like if you cant make a clean kill,  and it runs off you better track it if you want your arrow back.    i cheese some parts of the game but i never do things like this.    that's like those people who quickly make fires to avoid wolf encounters.. cheeeeeeesy

[Hesha]

On 17/09/2017 at 7:28 AM, Simone Else said:

thats seems too cheesy for me, i feel like if you cant make a clean kill,  and it runs off you better track it if you want your arrow back.    i cheese some parts of the game but i never do things like this.    that's like those people who quickly make fires to avoid wolf encounters.. cheeeeeeesy

Oh, absolutely. Cheesy as hell. But then again, some might argue, it's only fair in a game that doesn't allow you to jump or sleep on a couch.

[Mroz4k]

Oh, right. This provocation. I responded to this but internet cut off so it didnt get posted.

Will keep it short today. Did not contradict myself once. People in here clearly think that it makes difference in how many bullets one needs to put into a bear to kill it. When it makes no difference at all - 1 bullet is just as deadly as 10 of them. The only thing you can achieve by shooting more is to make the animal bleed out faster by hitting different part of a body that bleeds more, or maybe get lucky and score a critical hit, getting an insta kill. Which is all still wasted resources, either condition on a bow and arrows, or unreplenishable bullets. One shot is enough to make animal bleed, and such animal is good as dead.

There was an argument to shoot more in order to kill animal instantly and not have it run off with an arrow somewhere. This doesnt really make sense - you can shoot 10 arrows and have a deer run off with 10 of them instead of one. Each shot carries a same chance of critical hit per specific body part. Adding more does not make your chances higher, that would be gamblers fallacy. By shooting more, you have a same chance to drop the deer instantly but you are risking more resources with every shot you take. Again, better to shoot it once. 

Many of the issues people have with hunting comes from hunting in poor areas - in places where animals can run off and die in a spot that is unreachable or difficult to find. Pick better hunting spots - with either limited space, or undisturbed view of the surrounding area.

1 shot, 1 kill. Anything more is a waste. The only reason to shoot an animal more then once is to raise your skill - in case of archery this makes sense. In case of rifles, it is still wasting of precious bullets. Also, trying to shoot fleeing animal is generally pretty difficult - high chance of error, getting no benefit and simply losing resources. Shoot once and let it bleed - but try to go for an instakill with a first shot - that is not impossible to do, and is pretty rewarding in itself. Super easy to kill deer with first shot, using a bow, with just a little of training.

[Hesha]

From the resource perspective you are correct, of course. But not everybody aims for 100% efficiency. Some people (for me personally it depends on my mood) simply don't feel like chasing a bear for ages, so in that case I'm willing to use three arrows, each time with a chance to insta-kill him.

But generally speaking, you cannot say that shooting an animal more than once doesn't help. It might, as you have explained yourself. It might drop via insta-kill, it might bleed faster by wounding a more critical body part. Or the arrow might have no effect.

Of course I get what you meant to say originally: There are no hitpoints and the arrow does no "damage". Which is super misleading, since the Archery skill tells us that it increases "Arrow damage".

And obviously 1 shot, 1 kill is what we should aim for. At least until we have reached Archery level 5, at which point you are pretty much guaranteed insta-kills, at least in my experience.

[JAFO]

20 hours ago, Hesha said:

At least until we have reached Archery level 5, at which point you are pretty much guaranteed insta-kills, at least in my experience.

But is that because you're still aiming at probable insta-kill points, and level 5 just ensures that you'll probably hit them, or because level 5 deals massive damage? What happens if you shoot him in the foot at level 5?

[selfless]

On 9/19/2017 at 0:47 PM, Hesha said:

Of course I get what you meant to say originally: There are no hitpoints and the arrow does no "damage". Which is super misleading, since the Archery skill tells us that it increases "Arrow damage".

There are hitpoints.  And arrows do do damage.  Just not much.  A bear can take 10 level 1 arrows anywhere but the head (head can take only 3).  And thats 10 solid hits; no "grazing".

What is super "misleading" is bleeding.  Bleeding does not drain hitpoints.  It is a set timer that just insta-kills (applies 100% condition damage) when it expires.  An animal that has been bleeding for 6 hours has the exact same number of hitpoints as it had when it got shot.  So the only way to do more damage is to stick another arrow in.  Repeatedly.  

It is far more likely to kill a bear from a critical strike (random chance 100x damage multiplier) or have it bleed out than to ever get enough arrows into it to get normal damage to kill it.  Happy hunting.

[AZHockeyNut]

Resources wise you are correct. However if you need the food etc and cannot afford to have it get lost or you are looking to level up skills then more hits serves those goals. Comes down to what you are trying to do.

My survivor never assumes indefinite survival alone, always assumes he or she will find someone else so resource conservation especially at the early stages is not at the forefront of the mindset. Getting something in the belly fast is. :-)

[Mroz4k]

On 9/20/2017 at 8:26 PM, selfless said:

There are hitpoints.  And arrows do do damage.  Just not much.  A bear can take 10 level 1 arrows anywhere but the head (head can take only 3).  And thats 10 solid hits; no "grazing".

What is super "misleading" is bleeding.  Bleeding does not drain hitpoints.  It is a set timer that just insta-kills (applies 100% condition damage) when it expires.  An animal that has been bleeding for 6 hours has the exact same number of hitpoints as it had when it got shot.  So the only way to do more damage is to stick another arrow in.  Repeatedly.  

It is far more likely to kill a bear from a critical strike (random chance 100x damage multiplier) or have it bleed out than to ever get enough arrows into it to get normal damage to kill it.  Happy hunting.

This is first time I have ever heard of anyone, claiming there are hitpoints. What is your reference?

To my knowledge, and I did test this in the past, there are no hitpoints. You can continue shooting an animal and if you are simply extremely unlucky, you will be just burning through ammo. Not that difficult to do a bunch of tests when Hunted part 2 starts you off with a loaded gun and ten bullets... The thing with a rifle is, however, that the rifle causes less of a bleeding, but has rather high critchance even on low skill. Bow has a faster bleeding rates, but very small crit chance.

If someone wishes to continue wasting ammo to attempt an instakill, they are certainly allowed to do so - but the simple fact remains - even a single shot is just as deadly, as long as it caused bleeding. Then its just a matter of time. 

I believe the "arrow damage" refers to the "condition loss" on arrows if used to fire into individual terrains, rather than actually "damage caused" - but I cant prove that. But it does sound rather menacingly, that on a Level 5 you would be able to shoot arrows which do 1/4 more damage and get a +50% crit chance on top of it. What would be the point if you could pretty much instakill anything long before putting several arrows into it anyways?

This is something relatively difficult to test - because most times, you will be lucky to roll the % chance for an istakill if attempting to shoot animal into a specific body part over and over again. This can be wrongly interpreted as "hitpoints" easily. I dont believe I have ever had an animal survive more then 6 consequtive shots. Most definitedly never had an animal survive more then 6 hits.