Wolf Mechanics

[PleXD]

While the current wolves make for an interesting game play I would like to propose some changes to the wolves

First remove the single wolves from the main maps and replace with 1 big group of 4 to 5 wolves depending on map and 1 to 2 smaller groups also depending on map of 2 wolves.

Each group will have a pack leader usually the one out in front and will either circle each map either clockwise or counter clockwise or have set paths with chance on which way they go (ie when they come to a T intersection they have a 48% change of going left and a 48% chance of going right or a 4% chance of going back the way they came.

Once spotted the pack leader will follow the player like the current mechanics but the others will attempt to surround the player. If you manage to hurt or kill the pack leader there is a very high chance that all of them will run away.  If you hurt or kill a non-pack leader there is a small chance the rest will run but expect the others to stay and you will get attacked again.

If they do run it will not be for long and they will return to the last point of the attack or kill. If you have hurt a wolf to the point of it will die. Then the other wolves will first return to the point at which the dying wolf gets hurt then when the wolf dies they will go to that point and hang around for 1-5 hours. If they do no spot the player they will eventually move on.   

Bring back brandish when you are holding a torch or flare but instead of the wolves running away they just keep their distance and just follow you.  You still can try to make them run by throwing the torch/flare, obvious implications if the throw fails to make them run.

This will change several things within the game:

Wolf encounters will become less likely over current but more deadly

Carrying items that give off scent will become more dangerous

Dropping a decoy will become more valuable

Wolf meat and wolf pelt will become more valuable/ harder to obtain this means that either more meat can be added to the wolf or the parasite debuff can be scaled back/removed.

This will work better if the moose gets added as the wolves will attack as a pack. There can be a slight chance that wolves will try to attack the bear. This can be a very rare encounter and if the wolves win and the player can scare off the wolves they will have a bear harvest. Or if the bear wins then and the player can draw the bear away then there is a wolf/s to harvest.

[The_Materialist]

Yess, please! I totally agree!

I also like to see improved AI on wolfes. I mean they attack me fully rested, with full health and a knife in my hand, wearing a wolf coat. And that just by chance. For the wolf it is pretty much sure that he is going to die if he attacks me at this point. Sure he is going to hurt me bad, but he is going to bleed out. No wolf would risk attacking a human at best condition. A pack of course but a lone wolf would only attack weak prey.

[Mroz4k]

11 hours ago, The_Materialist said:

Yess, please! I totally agree!

I also like to see improved AI on wolfes. I mean they attack me fully rested, with full health and a knife in my hand, wearing a wolf coat. And that just by chance. For the wolf it is pretty much sure that he is going to die if he attacks me at this point. Sure he is going to hurt me bad, but he is going to bleed out. No wolf would risk attacking a human at best condition. A pack of course but a lone wolf would only attack weak prey.

Shows how much both of you actually know about wolf attacks.

Of course the wofl would attack you, even if you were coming at it with ten torches and a machine gun... if the animal is backed out into a corner, it would attack you regardless of what you are. 
There are two general types of wolf attacks - provoked and predatorial. Each section is divided further but for the sake of explanation, it is enough. 
Provoked are the types of attacks wolf will commit to when it feels like it has no other choice - you pass into its zone of comfort, you seem threathening, you move with sharp moves, you threathen its food, etc... those attacks are usually not intended to be deadly, but a warning of a kind - it wont bite you in neck area to kill you, for example... and if the victim still dies, they will likely not eat it right away. This is basically self-defense in a wolf perspective.

Predatorial attacks are the ones done with intent to kill. Wolf will go purposedly after your weak spots, trying to kill you by biting your neck, for example. The intend is to eat you. One division here is something called "investigative" attacks - which is a mild predatorial attack in which the wolf will test your strenght, your ability to defend yourself... which is where falls your argument of "wolf wouldnt attack me in full strenght, wearing a knife" - when its obvious wolf wouldnt know to fear the knife BEFORE he attacked you...
Reference is Wiki on "wolf attacks on humans" for the terminology - but the claims come from other sources as well. Mostly its based on research of documented wolf attacks on humans.

[Mroz4k]

I dont like the "pack" idea - lone wolves are not uncommon. And the packs might be too much to handle - while may be more realistic, it adds unnecesary challenge to the "relatively new" mechanic at the moment. Wolves were overhauled recently, we will see how those changes work out in the future. ATM I think wolves are pretty decent challenge - not too much, but definitedly not as easy to deal with as they used to be before with sneaking.

Also, the notion I would be getting is that if you killed their alpha, the pack would then tear you apart for it, instead of running away. You would present yourself as a challenge that has taken down the alpha, and the newest alpha would be selected on bringing you down. 

[EricTheGreat12]

12 hours ago, The_Materialist said:

No wolf would risk attacking a human at best condition. A pack of course but a lone wolf would only attack weak prey.

How would the wolf even know ??

 

Bad thinking ...

[PleXD]

5 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

Shows how much both of you actually know about wolf attacks.

Here we go again....

How about just replying instead of "Claiming" people do not know what they are talking about?

[PleXD]

5 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

I dont like the "pack" idea - lone wolves are not uncommon. And the packs might be too much to handle - while may be more realistic, it adds unnecesary challenge to the "relatively new" mechanic at the moment. Wolves were overhauled recently, we will see how those changes work out in the future. ATM I think wolves are pretty decent challenge - not too much, but definitedly not as easy to deal with as they used to be before with sneaking.

They are not a challenge at the moment. I never use a decoy (unless I am trying to hunt one), I never sneak and the only time I get attacked is when I accidentally run into one coming over a hill or something. If you just walk away from them and look back at them from time to time they never attack. As long as you do not stop you are fine. 

5 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

Also, the notion I would be getting is that if you killed their alpha, the pack would then tear you apart for it, instead of running away. You would present yourself as a challenge that has taken down the alpha, and the newest alpha would be selected on bringing you down. 

That is why I mentioned that they come back after initially being scared off. Perhaps with a new Alpha. It is also to give you options, you can run, build a fire, use a decoy, use a torch/flare, attempt to fight them one at a time or you can challenge the Alpha for high chance of scaring the rest off long enough for you to high tail it out of there. 

[Mroz4k]

Sounds like a Wintermute issue, sadly my only experience with wolves in Wintermute was in my two runs of Story mode. And in there, they didnt give me much of an idea of being "easy". 
Pre-Wintermute, the wolves were defininitedly not easy to deal with. Especially with smelly items on you - they would zone on the player from afar and keep coming till you made them bleed or killed them. Sneaking around with stones also took some skill.

I have attempted Interloper many times, I have never died to anything else then a wolf attack. Even at a decent health, those beasts would just come up into me on accident and soon enough I was making a second game...

I suppose they messed around with them in Wintermute and they might be easy to deal with right now, but that is hardly a reason to ask for a complete work-over... Wintermute is still very raw update, there is lots of tuning to do.

On 14. 9. 2017 at 1:46 AM, PleXD said:

That is why I mentioned that they come back after initially being scared off. Perhaps with a new Alpha. It is also to give you options, you can run, build a fire, use a decoy, use a torch/flare, attempt to fight them one at a time or you can challenge the Alpha for high chance of scaring the rest off long enough for you to high tail it out of there. 

That is how movie wolves work. A hero kills a single wolf and the pack starts running, and the hero claims its time to go, because they will soon return... If you merely just injured the alpha, the pack would tear you up. Besides, alpha would never be in the front of a pack, he would be in the middle, along with alpha female, where its most safe. Alpha is the first to eat, but will rarely hunt himself because he is considered to be the most important to pack´s survival. And most of the pack are genetically related, as most of the pack are offspring of the alpha pair.

Finally, Aurora would make this very difficult to survive - as most people are of an idea that aurora juices the wolves up quite heavily, to the point its advised not to leave shelter too much on aurora nights.

[PleXD]

They were the same before and after the Wintermute update. All I play is interloper before and after the update.

Try this next time you play. If a wolf spots you walk the other direction and occasionally look back. Do not pull out your bow (they will attack if you draw the bow). It also does not matter if you have scent either all that does is for the wolves to pick you up from a further distance. If you keep walking and do not stop they will never attack. Sometimes if they go behind a rock or fall to far behind they run to catch up and they can get fairly close so do not stop (or get caught on anything) as they will attack. 

With the scent the wolves will run towards the location when they first picked it up. As long as you move away from that location they will not attack. For example I was hauling back a load of fresh deer and wolf pelts from broken railway (obviously through FM where I had 2 wolves following me for half the map) Shortly after I enter mystery lake I saw the wolf down the tracks pick up my scent and start running towards me. All I did was turn left and track along the left hand side of the tracks down the embankment and out of sight. Then came back up further on and the wolf had run straight past me to the point at which it first picked up my scent. 

As I said before the only time I get attacked is if I accidentally run into one coming around a corner or over a hill. 

On 9/16/2017 at 2:34 AM, Mroz4k said:

That is how movie wolves work. A hero kills a single wolf and the pack starts running, and the hero claims its time to go, because they will soon return... If you merely just injured the alpha, the pack would tear you up. Besides, alpha would never be in the front of a pack, he would be in the middle, along with alpha female, where its most safe. Alpha is the first to eat, but will rarely hunt himself because he is considered to be the most important to pack´s survival. And most of the pack are genetically related, as most of the pack are offspring of the alpha pair.

 As opposed to how they are now? because they totally reflect real life as all wolves are solo and only travel 500m in their life time....

No where in this thread have I mentioned I want wolves to reflect real life. I added the % chance of the wolves running away and the Alpha as a game mechanic. (spoiler it is in the title) Because if they always attacked no mater what then what is the point of fighting because it will always be a death sentence.  At least in the mechanics I proposed fighting is an option.

On 9/16/2017 at 2:34 AM, Mroz4k said:

Finally, Aurora would make this very difficult to survive - as most people are of an idea that aurora juices the wolves up quite heavily, to the point its advised not to leave shelter too much on aurora nights.

  But the Aurora also highlights the wolves so they are easier to spot. This mechanic also makes wolf encounters more rare so everything evens out.