Wintermute comments

[Carbon]

Yes, I know. First, that I am late to this feedback party and second, it is quite self-important to start a new thread merely for my comments, as though they carry some weight. Well, I know they don't and I'm only starting this thread because the others have slipped down too far to bump and I think a couple of things need to be revisited. Maybe I am  just being pretentious...if so, I'm sure I won't escape your wrath. I should also state upfront that anyone who has spent a lot of time n the sandbox will likely feel quite different from a new player, so add a dash of 'been there, done that' to my comments.

So, some general feedback after getting through Story Mode in two sittings. Overall, quite positive would characterize my feelings. Some general comments, in no order (but hastily written; I'm trying to be less concerned about that, but this sidebar illustrates how it's not really working):

 ~ The new areas are amazing. One can only hope that Milton becomes playable in Sandbox. Broken Railroad is inspired; the best elements from the other maps all thrown into the mix. Open spaces, open water, cliffs, climbs and forests. Great map but needs fishing to be utterly perfect.

 ~ Click-through text-based dialogue! Much better than wasting time and money on recording things that few want to sit through. We read faster than we hear, so good job on making the longer discussions pass as fast as the player may desire.

 ~ Visuals. A softer interpretation of a Borderlands~y cell-shaded thing going on in some of the new areas (am I the only one who thinks that in a few ways Borderlands 1 was a significant inspiration for the team?). Lighting/shadowing is much better overall, new label/item textures add a splash of color and the branding seems to make them more significant beyond simply a food source. I wonder if overall the world visuals haven't taken a step backward with the release of story mode? The draw distance has decreased or detail was reduced resulting in higher FPS at the expense of a slightly lowered IQ. However, overall, nicely done.

 ~ Voice acting. I think this is generally well done, if not at times a bit forced on paper. However, one exception: Jeremiah. In the early scenes his lines are ham-handed and while certainly dramatic, somewhat over—the-top. I'm not sure if this was direction or just an odd read but as I said, his early dialogues with Will are  a bit eye-rolly. It does get better however and by the end of Episode 2, he seems to have taken the performance down a notch, so there's that. Will and Astrid are very well done but shoveling in backstory during the exposition was quite stereotypical…how many cutoff “I know…”s did you count?

“But then we…”

“I know.”

Does that mean….?”

“Yes, but only if…”

“I know.”

“After you left….”

“I know. I couldn’t do it, I mean….”

“I know.”

Could one of you finish a sentence for me?

 

~ Astrid / Will chemistry. In the early exchanges between them, one senses a real compatibility between them, even through the contrived and clipped dialogue. Will's desire to find Astrid alive - which seems a time-dependent task - is taking a while thanks to people asking him to find their keys before telling him in which of the 4 possible directions to proceed. Meanwhile, Astrid might be swinging from a tree 800 meters away. While the commentary on human nature isn't missed, the ability to grab Grey Mother's gun and leave (not to mention other potentials) shouldn't be left aside.

 

“Before I tell you how to find your ex-wife, get me some food.”

“How about you tell me before I ensure that you won’t need any more food?”

 

~ Speaking of grabbing, why can’t I grab Jeremiah and/or Grey Mother by the throat and tell them I’ll do their little quests after I located my quite possibly dead ex-wife who went missing from the plane crash I only just survived? Or let the reward suit the work; they are giving me scraps while I guarantee their very lives! These people are horrible and don’t deserve a stick let alone a box full of food and lumber. I stagger into their homes wearing scraps, freezing, hungry and tired yet am offered nothing except opportunities for more of the same. Yes, Will does get items from them, but only after initiating the exchanges and earning trust. Which I find paradoxical because it should be Will who cannot trust people so self-invested and myopic that they won't even further his search from the goodness of their hearts. If they don’t trust me then why would they tell me they know something critical but then withhold that information? Is this a method of pacifying potentially dangerous strangers? If Will is a loose hinge then this would certainly inspire a rampage. I know if I were in Will’s situation I wouldn’t be nearly so diplomatic nor generous with my ever-ticking time. Ah well…the plot will point to the darkness of human nature in desperation I suppose, but it does nothing to soothe the emptiness of action in the late stages. "Yeah, I'll help you, you despicable wretch."

~ Pacing and timing. Episode 2 is yet another training session, and that after we have already learned to do everything asked of us. Thus, it is simply grind…which grinds any impetus for finding Astrid to a halt. The game seems to fold in on itself with fetch quests really the only plot device utilized which while understandable in the early game, feels quite unnatural and contrived in Episode 2, particularly as we are searching for someone we care about who may well be dead or dying. Yes, this road is leading back to my previous point regarding the urgency of our motivation but it really was impossible for me to overcome. I raced through the episodes, thinking that somehow time was important and now that I know it isn’t at all – Astrid's fate gets held in stasis while you help cruel strangers – I’ll go back and take my time, now knowing that Astrid is not in the least a concern. Now, exactly how do these strangers hold such vital information anyhow? How can these people be the key to anything…a bed-ridden old trapper in a deep corner of a map, miles from where you crashed and a blind old woman who never leaves the house hold critical information about a woman who only very briefly passed through town at a time of total chaos (everyone abandoning everything and leaving)? Was Astrid (or her abductors/cohorts) sprinting noisily through the world, remembered over the calamity that must have been taking place? That’s a tough hole to plug for me. Perhaps later episodes will answer these questions plausibly.

Finally, where is the drama? I really thought we would bear witness to the calamity in real-time but it seems that in the few hours it took for the geomagnetic event to occur, everything happened. Milton is gutted...people boarded up their homes in this short time, food went off, entropy moved at an exponential rate…how...when? Perhaps we were unconscious for days after the crash, but the plane is still burning like mad when we rouse, so that idea is tossed. Time compression? I have no explanation myself but it is odd that we are so late to a party that only just started that everyone’s already gone. I was hoping for more immersive action: get to Milton, the town is going bananas or at least a line of refugees leaving for better fortunes. But it looks and seems like the anomaly happened months or even years ago. Restricted sandbox with external motivators is essentially how it unfolds.

 Anyhow, despite this seeming long list of gripes, I enjoyed Wintermute for the most part. Good job and congratulations to Hinterland on making this milestone and I hope the rest of the episodes are of the same level of quality. Yes, I do hope they are less ‘fetchy’ and Will gains some autonomy (more clues left in the world instead of in the heads of strangers) and the training wheels are well and truly removed, but again, it was a fun romp most of the time, so long as you don’t look at it too closely.

[wren]

Hi Carbon

I'm so glad that you have enjoyed story mode thus far, so have I.  I want to clarify that, despite some obvious story holes and continuity problems, some of which are pointed out by you above, there is considerable back story available to players as they move through the episodes.  

The "collapse" as referred to by Grey Mother, is an economic collapse which has developed over time.  These conditions are prevalent in many Canadian communities with resource-based economies (lumber in BC, fisheries in Atlantic Canada...).  She alludes to the dependance on the "mainland" for jobs, goods and services no longer being generated locally, as well as a growing dependance and subsequent abandonment by the "South", (i.e. softwood lumber disputes).  People leave these communities when the resources dwindle or are sourced elsewhere and the economy fails as jobs are lost and markets shift and tariffs prohibit viable resource extraction. Hence the boarded up houses.

There are also references to literal "collapses", rockfalls, landslides etc. as a result of increasing seismic activity.  This has made the dam dangerous and obsolete, thus increasing dependance, and has compounded the isolation as access to elsewhere is becoming more limited.  Efforts to maintain connection through "skype" and "drones" are inadequate to ensure viability of these communities, though the descriptions add a little comic relief for players as we flush out our understanding of the history of Milton.

 

The final event, coinciding with an aurora borealis, has caused a collapse of the electronic world, a collapse of the tunnel leading out of Milton, and the collapse of Will's little bush plane into the mountainside near Milton. Though Will's initial concern is to find Astrid, he soon realizes that he needs a plan to continue to venture safely about in his quest.  He needs to stay safe, he needs to know the area, and he needs to build relationship with the few people that remain behind.  As he does so, we are left to ponder and grow knowledge about how these "collapses" are related to each other, and the various ways that the inhabitants of Great Bear have adapted their lives in response to economic, cultural and environmental change.  (some left early for lack of livlihood: Pastor skypes his sermons to a dwindling congregation; some will never leave and will succumb eventually: GM; some stay on because their subsistence lifestyle is not so impacted by the collapse(s): Jeremiah; some believe they can make a difference and restore the past: Forest Talkers; some remain due to circumstances: prisoners; and some who did not survive their attempts to flee upon being terrified by the final "collapse", the geomagnetic event.)

 

I for one am super-keen to see how these themes develop in future episodes, while learning more about the personal stories of Will and Astrid, and their encounters along the way.  It’s not so vital for me to see if they find each other or not, or when.  And, of course, I enjoy the game-play throughout.  I enjoyed the fetch quests and the side quests, as they are effective for learning the maps, more so I think than teaching the mechanics of gameplay.  They provide opportunities for learning to ‘read’ the game: the weather patterns, the soundscape, the animal characters and the best ways to live amongst them.  I feel that Hinterland’s greatest accomplishment over the course of the game’s development lies in this:  players learn the heart of the game instinctively while playing it.  The landscape is the main character, and as we play we develop intimate knowledge of this, and our place within it.  The ‘tutorials’ help to keep us alive long enough to accomplish this.

[Carbon]

 Thanks for clarification on a few points wren. I would love to know how a geomagnetic anomaly collapses a tunnel, but I suppose that's another day.

  As I said in the opening of my post, I am somewhat jaded compared to a new player and don't need all of the hand-holding and of course, this colors everything. Fetch/side quests miss their mark in this context but as you state, this is expected for the early episodes where players need such activity.

 Anyhow, thanks for your detailed reply. I will try to let some of your unwavering optimism into my second playthrough (which I think will be more enjoyable!).

[Fuarian]

I get what you're saying. But I think that having full on voice acting would make it a tad better. The chosen dialogue doesn't even have to have animation, just voice acting. While immersion breaking, it's much less immersion breaking than nothing at all. And the ability to skip through it can stay. 

I get that the stereotypical cliche dialogue may seem a bit overdone at times, I kinda like it. Because it's not telling us every little thing about them. While I think it should be done a bit less. It's still okay in my book.

And as for taking an NPC's weapon and blatantly killing them or whatnot, it goes agaisnt the character of Will Mackenzie. I still think we should have more choice in the matter but something as serious as that is a bit over the top.

And yes, there's not enough drama. But with the introduction of Mathis as a character and Methuselah's famous "How far will you go to survive?" quote I think the drama and NPC action scenes will be increasing soon enough.

[Dougie]

21 hours ago, Carbon said:

 Thanks for clarification on a few points wren. I would love to know how a geomagnetic anomaly collapses a tunnel, but I suppose that's another day.

  

I think there's more than geomagnetic things happening. Notes have indicated "quakes".  Those would collapse a tunnel.

[MindFog2287]

Sandbox, this game is one of my all-time favorites. It's meditative for me. I'm about 5-10 hours into story mode, and the dialog, I'm having a hard time with some of it, unfortunately. I don't want to be too harsh, because every writer deserves a chance to get better, but the beginning scenes with Will and Astrid sound like someone took every dramatic movie they had ever seen and tried to force emotions into dialog that just didn't work because we don't know the characters yet. Not everything needs to be written up front, and certainly not out in the open. That's my big gripe so far. I don't mind doing quests for people when I should be looking for my friend. Hell, Fallout 4, I spent days doing side quests while I was supposed to be looking for my son. But the writing needs to slow the eff down and be a LOT more restrained. The lead writer needs a good editor who can challenge him or her and they'll learn. "Story" by Robert McKee is essential reading. I know Neil Druckmann (The Last of Us), that book was his bible. 

Even simplifying the opening dialog I think would have helped. Maybe something like this would have taken all the melodrama out of it, and would have been a solid intro, without bringing things in too soon that didn't need to be told immediately. 

ASTRID enters the shop. Will stands up at his desk, stunned.
Will: Astrid. What the hell?
Astrid: Hi MacKenzie
Will: Wh - what are you doing here?
Astrid: I don't have time to explain, other than to say - I'm here for a favor.
Will: You show up after all this time for a favor?
Astrid: It's not for me. It's important. There's an isolated community in Great Bear. I have to get this case up there. Now.
Will: Great Bear isn't there anymore. There's nothing there at all. And the weather out there is bad. Really bad. No one in their right mind would fly out in this right now.
Astrid: Will- 
Will: What's in the case? 
Astrid: See, that's the thing - it's actually two favors...
Will: (silent)
Astrid: First, I need a pilot. The best pilot I know. And the second favor is... No questions. 
Will: (laughs) Look. If I'm flying out to the Great Northern Nowhere, in *this*, I need to know why.
Astrid: I can't tell you
Will: You're ridiculous. No way. Can't do it. 
Astrid: Will. Please.
Will pauses. Astrid looks down at his hands on the desk.
Astrid: You're still wearing your ring. 
Will looks down at the ring on his finger.
Astrid: Will, you know I wouldn't be here asking, after everything we've been through, if it wasn't important.
Will pauses a few more moments.
Will: (shaking his head) Throw your bags in the plane.

Not saying that's brilliant writing either, but I think it gets the points across without being too over the top. 

[Thrasador]

I believe the confusion relating to the back sorry of the disasters and events must mostly be due to not trading items for trust rewards, some of which include unlocking parts of the back story. Then after unlocking the additional pieces of the history of things, one is then expected to read the unlocked history in their journal in the appropriate section. As the abbreviated three sentences about the history from what the NPCs tell you is basically jack....

[ChillPlayer]

3 hours ago, Thrasador said:

Then after unlocking the additional pieces of the history of things, one is then expected to read the unlocked history in their journal in the appropriate section. As the abbreviated three sentences about the history from the NPCs tells you basically jack....

this is indeed easily overlooked, pretty much everything about the current state of Great Bear is explained in the texts except for the events connected to the Aurora. Why/when/by whom was the Dam build, why and when did it fail, why people left, hints at the great collapse and so on is all in there.

[Carbon]

  While I admit to being ignorant of a few details relating to the overall state of the land, I stand by everything else. The writing is patchy, as if done by committees in separate rooms. I heard that Raph did the writing, but it seems too inconsistent to have come from one person; the plot holes are just too wide and obvious to slip under a well-monitored radar.

 Regarding my comments about how Grey Mother might know anything at all: while the calamity happened some time ago and then over months, she does claim that there was gossip about Astrid, but then who gossiped if the town has been gutted for far longer than the few days since Astrid's visit? So while I was wrong, I was still right in that it doesn't make sense that she would know anything at all. That she has some kind of super-wind hearing only strengthens my belief that she would be seen by Will - or any other rational person - as an unreliable nutbar and quickly dismissed. Will is highly motivated and is thus perhaps vulnerable to manipulation, he first doesn't come across as being that naive ("shucks, I'll help ya, by golly") and second, his desire seems that of one who lost a goldfish, not their former partner.

 Again, I am enjoying the story (trying not to get too meta with the analysis), but really this is simply survival mode with external motivators, that's it. The same could have been achieved without all of these hair-brained NPCs ordering Will around on senseless quests that do very little to further his cause. Grey Mother is disposable; Will knows Astrid went through town thanks to evidence she herself provided on the land (pieces of scarf, writings in blood) and it seems all of these people simply send Will to one another making him jump through quite significant hoops only to give him crumbs after fulfilling their needs. Through them, Will's impetus and driving motivation is sapped and the story devolves into busy work. While one may have devoted time to side quests in FO4, this is the main plot I am talking about; a nearly empty distraction from the point: finding Astrid.

 The game would have been much stronger had it kept quiet with plot forwarding achieved through secretive exchanges between Will and Astrid through clues and puzzles, as with what Will finds as evidence of her passing in Milton (which he discovers on his own). Astrid is clearly a very strong and capable character, yet she is reduced to some kind of Princess Peach when she should be seen as more proactive and able to assist Will in her own discovery, despite her not being physically present. Using the 2 main characters and the land to progress the story, not largely dysfunctional, unreliable and essentially superfluous NPCs as a plot vehicle would have kept story mode much more in line with survival mode and avoided the often nonsensical grind that some of the first and most of the second episode comprise.

 The game is at its strongest when silent.

 I am currently in Milton and plan to hang out here as long as possible; survival mode in Milton. If Astrid is in limbo, then fine...so am I. 

[ChillPlayer]

2 hours ago, Carbon said:

  The game is at its strongest when silent.

I know what you mean but I think because of this meaning it's weakest when it's silent By that I mean the switching between voiced-over and text interaction with NPCs, which I really really dislike. I believe the story would've much more impact if all interactions would've been audio-recorded and not only the first few sentences. TLD to me is a piece of art but those text-only questlines are like a coffe stain on an oil painting, it kinda ruins the whole experience.

[Stormwolf1O1]

1 minute ago, ChillPlayer said:

I know what you mean but I think because of this meaning it's weakest when it's silent By that I mean the switching between voiced-over and text interaction with NPCs, which I really really dislike. I believe the story would've much more impact if all interactions would've been audio-recorded and not only the first few sentences. TLD to me is a piece of art but those text-only questlines are like a coffe stain on an oil painting, it kinda ruins the whole experience.

I completely agree with this. I believe they should have gone with a more Telltale Games sort of interaction system. It vaguely resembles that already, in my opinion.

"Jeremiah will remember that."

[Carbon]

7 minutes ago, ChillPlayer said:

I know what you mean but I think because of this meaning it's weakest when it's silent By that I mean the switching between voiced-over and text interaction with NPCs, which I really really dislike. I believe the story would've much more impact if all interactions would've been audio-recorded and not only the first few sentences. TLD to me is a piece of art but those text-only questlines are like a coffe stain on an oil painting, it kinda ruins the whole experience.

 Sure, I totally understand where you are coming from. I agree but find myself on the other side, that if asked to choose would have chosen written exposition over voiced, if only for the simple reason of capital expenditure. I think HL can put the money and time to better use on more important and desired implementations such as more gear, areas, wildlife, etc. The actors used are big names and likely aren't cheap and while they do a great job generally, I just think the money is best spent elsewhere.

 But yes, one way or the other...the mixing of the two is a bit odd.

 

[ChillPlayer]

11 minutes ago, Thrasador said:

Mel actually responded to the voice work bit a couple weeks ago...I guess it was too hard or time consuming to animate all of it...ok take more time then?

I repeat what I responded to Mel in that thread: no animation needed. Just have Jeremiah sitting there with the same animation, rocking back and forth a bit, Will the same, and have the Actors read their texts. Every character in Dark Souls speaks but not one is Lip-Synced, it's as if they'd speak from mind to mind and DS is one of the most immersive games I know, I am sure this would work in TLD too.

[Carbon]

7 minutes ago, ChillPlayer said:

I repeat what I responded to Mel in that thread: no animation needed. Just have Jeremiah sitting there with the same animation, rocking back and forth a bit, Will the same, and have the Actors read their texts. Every character in Dark Souls speaks but not one is Lip-Synced, it's as if they'd speak from mind to mind and DS is one of the most immersive games I know, I am sure this would work in TLD too.

 Hmmm...I don't know about that Chill. Mate, I'm not trying to argue with you and really respect your experience and opinion, so don't get me wrong here.

 However, I would find that a bit unnerving. DS has a mystical or magical element to it that allows for that kind of ethereal, disembodied dialogue, but TLD is too 'real' or grounded in the known world for that, the characters too 'normal' for such exchanges. Seeing two characters blankly looking toward each other, teetering to and fro while hearing their voices would be far stranger than what we have now.

[Stormwolf1O1]

1 minute ago, Carbon said:

 Seeing two characters blankly looking at each other, teetering to and fro while hearing their voices would be far stranger than what we have now.

It'd seriously throw me off, honestly. 

[Carbon]

1 hour ago, Thrasador said:

I'm fine with that too....

If I recall correctly Mel gave the thread the typical one comment per thread summons, like Patrick does too....

If they fail to read your question properly, or only answer half of the question....another summon is required to MAYBE get an answer....

They don't seem to follow threads they comment in, or check their notifications in the forum, or the forum activity feed....or they do and just ingore us....

I know they ignore me, because I am a straight shooter and speak my mind. I don't sugar coat things and pander to people the way they must desire me to. I have Aspergers....I don't have the patience or ability to understand all that nonsense....

I guess that makes me rude or a jerk, because I don’t sing praises when praises are undeserved....

 I know you are ignoring me but I guess you can still see posts I start which, if you are being true to your own decision, you would ignore instead of redirect to be about you. But to the point...

 It seems that you attribute to yourself the very characteristics for which you have me blocked. This is either hilariously ironic or illustrative of a lack of self-awareness but either way, painting yourself as some kind of silenced dissident is errant, something for which there is little supporting evidence. I have found you to be quite a positive contributor and as for your Aspergers, it hasn't been apparent and there's no hiding behind that at this point anyway.

 Mel and Patrick are undoubtedly busy people between here and Steam (where they may well also be modding) as well as with their other responsibilities at HL and don't have time to babysit every post. Aside from this, not every complaint deserves recognition and the idea that they are actively ignoring you seems oddly self-pitying and arrogant. They aren't actively ignoring or encouraging anyone, they are simply judicious and selective with their time and energy.

 Finally, you have 864 posts to your name in a mere 6 weeks; perhaps they just can't keep up with you.

[Stormwolf1O1]

12 minutes ago, Carbon said:

 Finally, you have 864 posts to your name in a mere 6 weeks; perhaps they just can't keep up with you.

Hehe I have nearly 250 posts in only 20 days.

[ChillPlayer]

1 hour ago, Carbon said:

  However, I would find that a bit unnerving. DS has a mystical or magical element to it that allows for that kind of ethereal, disembodied dialogue, but TLD is too 'real' or grounded in the known world for that, the characters too 'normal' for such exchanges. Seeing two characters blankly looking toward each other, teetering to and fro while hearing their voices would be far stranger than what we have now.

Yes it wouldn't work the exact same way like in DS but we coud still have the already existent lip-synced scenes where the characters talk to each other without any action from the player. But when the part comes where you have to interact, those sentences that are only written could've been read by an actor without lip-syncing the characters, just show them. I think there are other games where this was implemented as such but I can't remember any.

[Mel Guille]

Hi Thrasador.

We are not ignoring anyone and do our best to help out in threads when players are stuck or confused or moderation is required. However we do not always participate in every discussion and are not always able to respond immediately after being tagged. This is partly because we have other communities and responsibilities that need attention, but mainly because we want the forums to be a space where our players to gather and have discussions with one another, rather than where Hinterland talks at players. Our presence in the forums is mainly dedicated to keeping discussions organized and on track and ensuring members feel welcome and comfortable.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts about the game -- criticism is welcome and we keep a close watch on player feedback and the team often discusses it internally. We don't ask anyone to "sugar coat" anything -- If you don't like something you are welcome to share that opinion, and to detail what it was about it you didn't like, and why.

However, we would appreciate it if you would stop declaring every aspect of the game you disagree with to be a result of laziness, thoughtlessness or some other insulting, negative personal characteristic. These conjectures don't contribute anything helpful to the discussion, and are frankly hurtful to a team that cares deeply about The Long Dark and have dedicated years to expanding and improving it.

[Carbon]

6 hours ago, ChillPlayer said:

Yes it wouldn't work the exact same way like in DS but we coud still have the already existent lip-synced scenes where the characters talk to each other without any action from the player. But when the part comes where you have to interact, those sentences that are only written could've been read by an actor without lip-syncing the characters, just show them. I think there are other games where this was implemented as such but I can't remember any.

 Well, that might work. It's an interesting idea and had I the ability and power, I would certainly give it a test. The user prompting within the text should maybe stay though; I was paying attention - or so I thought - in my first run through, but even with my having to click to progress the conversation, I still clearly missed some key points. Heaven knows how I would have fared in an autoplay scenario!

[JAFO]

10 hours ago, Mel Guille said:

However, we would appreciate it if you would stop declaring every aspect of the game you disagree with to be a result of laziness, thoughtlessness or some other insulting, negative personal characteristic. These conjectures don't contribute anything helpful to the discussion, and are frankly hurtful to a team that cares deeply about The Long Dark and have dedicated years to expanding and improving it.

I'm guessing you haven't encountered many people with Asperger's Syndrome. They don't 'get' emotions (in others, at least), and don't understand/realise when their words are hurtful to others. They can be incredibly rude and blunt without knowing or understanding how it comes across to others, and can be puzzled by the reactions they get. I have a couple of good friends who are aspy's, and believe me, it takes some getting used to.

[Carbon]

29 minutes ago, JAFO said:

I'm guessing you haven't encountered many people with Asperger's Syndrome. They don't 'get' emotions (in others, at least), and don't understand/realise when their words are hurtful to others. They can be incredibly rude and blunt without knowing or understanding how it comes across to others, and can be puzzled by the reactions they get. I have a couple of good friends who are aspy's, and believe me, it takes some getting used to.

 I have in the course of my professional tenure and while you are quite right about social norms, graces and expectations when in face-to-face situations, on paper the syndrome is often invisible or can be with some effort on the part of the afflicted. And indeed, until Thrasador mentioned it I never would have guessed that he were afflicted, despite my slightly more-than-average level of experience.

 It's unfair not to divulge this information immediately at the outset for one reason; with a late-game admission they can be perceived as turning it around and hiding behind it or using it as a social tactic of sorts. We indeed have a responsibility to give Thras some slack moving forward, but he also shares in this responsibility to do his utmost to be civil, which he is quite capable of, as evidenced by his many moderate posts. Finally, he knows enough to have the insight into how he may be perceived which indicates to me that he also has the wherewithal to maintain his often demonstrated stability.

 Despite his apparent distaste for me, I thought he was often a very helpful poster. I hope he returns and continues this pattern as do the many who will undoubtedly benefit from his insight.

[JAFO]

5 minutes ago, Carbon said:

And indeed, until Thrasador mentioned it I never would have guessed that he were afflicted, despite my slightly more-than-average level of experience.

Despite my own rather substantial experience, nor did I.. in retrospect, it does shed some light on some of his actions and comments.. I wish I'd realised earlier. I don't agree with you that he has some kind of responsibility to divulge his condition up-front though.. that's no way to go through life.

 

5 minutes ago, Carbon said:

Despite his apparent distaste for me, I thought he was often a very helpful poster. I hope he returns and continues this pattern as do the many who will undoubtedly benefit from his insight.

He'll be back.. he and I get along fairly well, and he's informed me that he's kind of taking a break for now, while the Ep2 flares bug gets sorted out.

[Thrasador]

1 hour ago, JAFO said:

I'm guessing you haven't encountered many people with Asperger's Syndrome. They don't 'get' emotions (in others, at least), and don't understand/realise when their words are hurtful to others. They can be incredibly rude and blunt without knowing or understanding how it comes across to others, and can be puzzled by the reactions they get. I have a couple of good friends who are aspy's, and believe me, it takes some getting used to.

I'm a 40 year old disabled person, I am very used to being yelled at and or fired by people in positions of power. That was actually my argument for being disabled. Getting fired from 19 jobs over 17 years.

Neurotypicals have made it abundantly clear that they don't like me, and I won't be having a career in science, despite my love of the subject matter and my ability to retain massive amounts of information. Which is a shame really, but I have come to terms with it and have orchestrated a comfortable life for myself despite my social shortcomings.

I feel I have helped a lot of people in the forum, I have answered numerous questions about the game mechanics for new players, and I have even helped many people with work arounds for quests they were stuck in due to bugs. Obviously the occasions when I have said something critical about the game, like the bugs, or the lack of assistance in general are the only posts that stick out in my over 800 posts in about six weeks of being present in the forums.

That's also a shame really, but I'm pretty sure there is a saying about that phenomenon:

Do something right and no one remembers, do something wrong and no one ever forgets. 

Anyways, I do appreciate your understanding and support! 

Thank you!

PS Carbon, I just don't like arguing in general, I find it extremely upsetting and mentally taxing.....arguing literally makes my brain hurt physically. That's why I came to the conclusion it is better for me to simply ignore you, than it is for us to continue going back and forth over most comments I try to make. Maybe you enjoy it and find it mentally stimulating....like social chess. I do not.

 

[JAFO]

7 minutes ago, Thrasador said:

my ability to retain massive amounts of information

Funnily enough.. even that didn't raise a flag in my mind, and it should have. If my experience is anything to go by, when it comes to researching something that interests you, you're an absolute machine..  I'm always awestruck at the way aspy's can locate and retain data.

11 minutes ago, Thrasador said:

Anyways, I do appreciate your understanding and support! 

You're welcome.. I'm happy to count you as a friend.