"I Play 'The Long Dark' For Peace and Tranquility" ???

[SnowWalker]

That is a statement that boggles my mind. When this game first came out there was only one mode - DEADLY. There was nothing tranquil about this game for well over a year. Very, much so not my go-to game for peace and tranquility. I played this game for the element of danger and the stress. More danger and stress than almost any other game I've ever played. I loved that! I adored that.
Then came Pilgrim mode and when I first saw Pilgrim I thought 'Pfffft, I'm not turning this game into a walk in the park.' I wish Hinterland would never have introduced 'Pilgrim' in the first place, because now people think this game is 'Survival Fun in the Snow' or something. The Long Dark is a game about a desolate, dangerous island, in a now dangerous world. This is a place that none of us would have a chance of surviving in real life. It was Hinterland's vision to give us the chance to experience something that deadly and to give us 'half' a chance to 'maybe' survive it, but there are no guarantees, and never were.
There has been an event that has changed the world and it has also changed the way the predators of this island behave. It has affected them and caused them to become, yes, erratic. More erratic than they ever were before....in fact---Illogical. But, this is a video game and in video games, we get the chance to 'try' to survive dangerous places and enemies against all odds, and in most video games, the devs get to create and throw crazy, erratic enemies at us. Which is why most of these games are so much fun to play and not boring. Why does A:I and all the other games get a pass for this kind of thing, but not TLD?
When people say that they expect this game to be tranquil and play it for the peace they experience while exploring the island in Pilgrim mode....that's fine, but it's not the way I think it should always be played if you want the full force of what the game has to offer. If it was, there would have been Pilgrim right from day one. So I'm sorry if it bothers me a bit when people expect story mode to be easy but it's not called The Long Dark for nothing. It's a video game. Most of them are hard.
Someone said today that 'This game is not Alien: Isolation', which as you know has an unpredictable, deadly creature. That's funny to me because I've always said that there are only three video game enemies that scare the hell out of me and get my heart rate pumpin' ...one is the Xenomorph of A:I, one is Laura (Spider Creature) in The Evil Within, and the other one is, 'Old Bear'. Why are these enemies so terrifying? Because we aren't given gigantic, fully-automatic guns to kill them with, that's why.
The long dark animals are made unpredictable because of the event which has affected them. Sure, in real life we could create better weapons with our ingenuity and intelligence but this is not real life...it's a video game and with slightly more dangerous enemies because game creators have to take creative license to give us excitement and fun and lets face it, none of us would survive Great Bear Island in real life.
They don't want us to have a plethora of weapons to get by with, they want it to be challenging. But you get so immersed into it that it feels like real life and when you do get through frightening challenges you feel like really patting yourself on the back and saying, hey, maybe I could survive this in real life. We have to try and use our wits and when that doesn't work, we have to be very, very careful to beat this game and sometimes, you die.
Some players don't like that element in games. They want the sure-thing, the sure bet and the fantastic weapons. Well, that's what 'Doom' is for.
I want more of a challenge than that. I play The Long Dark for the stress, and the danger.

[JAFO]

Nice rant!

 

(psst.. paragraphs.. they help) 

[SnowWalker]

10 minutes ago, JAFO said:

(psst.. paragraphs.. they help) 

Did I do better oh wise one? I've always had trouble with my commas and paragraphs ~ Grasshopper

[Scyzara]

1 hour ago, SnowWalker said:

When people say that they expect this game to be tranquil and play it for the peace they experience while exploring the island in Pilgrim mode....that's fine, but it's not the way it's intended to be played.

There's only a few persons on the planet, primarily @Raphael van Lierop, who truely know how the game 'is meant to be played' (if this term even makes sense to them, that is). It's arrogant to assume otherwise.  

They have developed this game, only they know which feelings they want to create in their players. And as the HL team introduced Pilgrim mode in the first place, I very much assume this rather peaceful and relaxing mode is ALSO a game version and experience they want to offer. 

All that being said, I personally sometimes have moments of peace and tranquility in my Interloper games. They're always fragile and fleeting, but that's exactly what makes them so precious to me.  

 

[Samsonguy920]

45 minutes ago, Scyzara said:

There's only a few persons on the planet, primarily @Raphael van Lierop, who truely know how the game 'is meant to be played' (if this term even makes sense to them, that is). It's arrogant to assume otherwise.  

They have developed this game, only they know which feelings they want to create in their players. And as the HL team introduced Pilgrim mode in the first place, I very much assume this rather peaceful and relaxing mode is ALSO a game version and experience they want to offer. 

All that being said, I personally sometimes have moments of peace and tranquility in my Interloper games. They're always fragile and fleeting, but that's exactly what makes them so precious to me.  

 

Well said.

Even in Story Mode there are enough choices able to be made to make the game experience unique to yourself. There is no "one" way to play it or even experience it.  I've seen this argument made to a lot of games. Not one of those arguments were to a form of play that I even adhered to in my own first experience.

It's fair to say you enjoy the experience the way you choose to have it, but it does the entire game a disservice to dismiss any other experience as not being the true intention of the game.  If I want to run naked through Skyrim, Mystery Lake, or the Capitol Wasteland, then that's how I roll.  But I am definitely not going to expect the same for anyone else.

[ChillPlayer]

1 hour ago, Scyzara said:

All that being said, I personally sometimes have moments of peace and tranquility in my Interloper games. They're always fragile and fleeting, but that's exactly what makes them so precious to me. 

That's why I am on a Stalker run right now, after a whole year of almost Interloper only I needed some peace and tranquility where not everything I do is coupled to so much work. Forage wood without a fire, hunt with a rifle, find cloths that are actually worth being called so. It's also easier to hunt for achievements in Stalker than Interloper

But Pilgrim has it's appeal too, mostly for Achievements I made several quick Pilgrim run just to enjoy the scenic view and not have to bother with wolves. Although I only played a few Voyageur games when I bought the game I think it's the perfect entry level difficulty and for someone who just made his first 100 days in Voyageur, Pilgrim might give some peace and quite to relax and focus on other aspects of the gameplay than battling wolves.

So in my book every difficulty is justified and has it's audience, even for experienced players.

[SnowWalker]

3 hours ago, Scyzara said:

There's only a few persons on the planet, primarily @Raphael van Lierop, who truely know how the game 'is meant to be played' (if this term even makes sense to them, that is). It's arrogant to assume otherwise.  

That is not the way I understand their own words to mean and it was dangerous right from the get go for over a year before Pilgrim - THE LONG DARK is a thoughtful, exploration-survival experience that challenges solo players to think for themselves as they explore an expansive frozen wilderness in the aftermath of a geomagnetic disaster. There are no zombies — only you, the cold, and all the threats Mother Nature can muster.

But, you're right. I'll change my wording.

I don't mean to come across as arrogant, I'm just defending Wintermute from the naysayers who say it's too hard and want Pilgrim mode for it. What game that is dangerous and has enemies can you give me as an example that has an easy mode which gives the game zero danger?

I mean, I know all you guys can play the harder modes and I myself have explored in Pilgrim.

[SnowWalker]

3 hours ago, Scyzara said:

All that being said, I personally sometimes have moments of peace and tranquility in my Interloper games. They're always fragile and fleeting, but that's exactly what makes them so precious to me.  

It is beautiful and peaceful at times. I do agree. But it's like that song 'Beautiful Dangerous', even though I think that's about a man.

[ChillPlayer]

3 hours ago, SnowWalker said:

I'm just defending Wintermute from the naysayers who say it's too hard and want Pilgrim mode for it.

wait what now, there are people seriously saying Wintermute is too difficult? Haven't heard that argument before, if anything it needs to get harder, like a lot. It should be on Stalker level at the very least or a mixture between Stalker and Interloper. I was quite disappointed that I can eat bear and wolf without the fear of parasites, it's always way too warm and there's plent of everything, the survival elements are reduced to dealing with wolves.

[JAFO]

4 hours ago, ChillPlayer said:

wait what now, there are people seriously saying Wintermute is too difficult?

Yep.. even asking for the wolves to be toned down.. heck, they're practically pussycats already, in Wintermute.

[ChillPlayer]

4 minutes ago, JAFO said:

Yep.. even asking for the wolves to be toned down.. heck, they're practically pussycats already, in Wintermute.

The amount of wolves yes, I'd be for a reduction too coupled with less resources and more focus on survival. But the wolves themselfs can't be tamed more or they will be dogs and no longer wolves

[SweetNightmare]

As someone that plays a lot of pilgrim, I think the sheer number of wolves is what's overwhelming new players. As far as Wintermute being cranked up to interloper as one person suggested, I and other new players like myself would be unable to play it. (I have tried Interloper about eight times now and never last past the first 24 hours.) There's a reason why other games have difficulty settings, rather than just making it as hard as possible.

I play pilgrim because wolves act more realistic; no lone wolf is going to jump a human in the middle of an open field. I wish there was a pilgrim with interloper loot spawns. I'd love that.

[ChillPlayer]

1 hour ago, SweetNightmare said:

As far as Wintermute being cranked up to interloper as one person suggested
.....
I wish there was a pilgrim with interloper loot spawns. I'd love that.

that's what I ment when I said it should be cranked up to Stalker/Interloper. Reduce the amount of wolves but leave their behaviour as it is right now in Story. Reduce the amount of loot drastically, make the weather a bit more unconfortable (Stalker levels) and focus more on the survival side of the game. It wouldn't be much more difficult than now but you'd be better prepared for Survival Mode.

Interestingly though hinterland has removed most of the unpopular Sandbox-mechanics from Story Mode, like Cabin Fever or Parasites and you can sleep for as long as you want. If they recognize some of the mechanics as too badly designed for Story, why not get rid of it in Sandbox too (looking at you CF )?

[SweetNightmare]

1 hour ago, ChillPlayer said:

that's what I ment when I said it should be cranked up to Stalker/Interloper. Reduce the amount of wolves but leave their behaviour as it is right now in Story. Reduce the amount of loot drastically, make the weather a bit more unconfortable (Stalker levels) and focus more on the survival side of the game. It wouldn't be much more difficult than now but you'd be better prepared for Survival Mode.

Interestingly though hinterland has removed most of the unpopular Sandbox-mechanics from Story Mode, like Cabin Fever or Parasites and you can sleep for as long as you want. If they recognize some of the mechanics as too badly designed for Story, why not get rid of it in Sandbox too (looking at you CF )?

You skipped over the part where I prefer wolves not being aggressive. My ideal world involves pilgrim wolf behavior but interloper loot. (Because I like crafting.)

[Samsonguy920]

6 hours ago, ChillPlayer said:

that's what I ment when I said it should be cranked up to Stalker/Interloper. Reduce the amount of wolves but leave their behaviour as it is right now in Story. Reduce the amount of loot drastically, make the weather a bit more unconfortable (Stalker levels) and focus more on the survival side of the game. It wouldn't be much more difficult than now but you'd be better prepared for Survival Mode.

Interestingly though hinterland has removed most of the unpopular Sandbox-mechanics from Story Mode, like Cabin Fever or Parasites and you can sleep for as long as you want. If they recognize some of the mechanics as too badly designed for Story, why not get rid of it in Sandbox too (looking at you CF )?

You have to remember that Story mode has to follow different rules than Survival. Take Grey Mother for example in Milton. She sends you on chores to get more firewood and food. Two things you need, as well.  Cut down both in the world and it becomes a choice between you or her, likely causing an end to the game.  There should be a sense of challenge, but not to the point where it becomes nigh improbable to progress the storyline.  When you are only looking out for yourself, it is easy to be ready for nature to brings its worst upon you.

Something to keep in mind is it is likely that the Story mode is going to get progressively more difficult with each episode. You do have to face a bear in Episode 2, after all. The reason for the easy start is there is going to be more new players yet to the game. Those of us who got a taste of the game in Early Access are going to find the start of Wintermute to be rather easy. But the new ones to the game, not all of them are going to spend months in Sandbox before trying out Story.  And Story is turning out to be a good way for new players to get familiar with the game mechanics, so they won't find Sandbox too intimidating.  Heck, not having to give up your inventory to NPC's in order to get their help will be a nice change of pace for them after they go through Wintermute a fair bit.

As to your second point, after my recent stay today in the church, I can say that sleeping still has its limits.  I was still healing from a wolf attack, but my fatigue bar was only about 2/3's down. But yet I didn't even get 8 hours of sleep as I tried to get.  I took up a bit of jogging down the aisle to get a bit more sleep in to get to daytime.  I do thank the deer that decided to wander in front of the church during the night, as it allowed me to leave the church that morning without becoming wolfbait.

As to the wolves' aggression @SweetNightmare, it is just fine. There is actually a lot of ways to avoid wolf attacks, the prime being paying attention for them. Keeping a few torches on hand will help, as well.  But you are going to have to accept that a wolf attack is inevitable, and you need to be on your toes to do what you can to get that wolf off of you as soon as you can.  The hatchet is one of the best weapons to have when you get tackled by a wolf, so getting that as soon as you get into Milton will help keep you alive.  I've actually gotten a wolf off of me without more than a bruise and a scratch which didn't even require first aid.

Remember, the Canadian Wasteland in The Long Dark is out to get you. It gives no quarter, no mercy, and every challenge it can throw at you.  It is up to you to tell the world outside what you think of that.

Not today.

[SweetNightmare]

@Samsonguy920 I don't have a problem with the wolves in story, since they're linked to the aurora. I'm mostly speaking to the Survival mode when I say I want scaredy cat wolves and interloper-like resources. I do find them annoying cause I don't like dealing with them, but I can do it. But cranking their damage or aggression levels up past where they are would make it unplayable for folks like me that prefer a more relaxed game. Either way, I feel the story would benefit from a choice in difficulty, harder for the tough players, easier/the way it is for the casuals.

[JAFO]

4 minutes ago, SweetNightmare said:

Either way, I feel the story would benefit from a choice in difficulty, harder for the tough players, easier/the way it is for the casuals.

Difficulty sliders for each of the major aspects of the game has been a long-standing request.. hopefully one day Hinterland will implement it, or maybe a mod can do so.

[Nervous Pete]

On 8/14/2017 at 4:07 AM, SweetNightmare said:

@Samsonguy920 I don't have a problem with the wolves in story, since they're linked to the aurora. I'm mostly speaking to the Survival mode when I say I want scaredy cat wolves and interloper-like resources. I do find them annoying cause I don't like dealing with them, but I can do it. But cranking their damage or aggression levels up past where they are would make it unplayable for folks like me that prefer a more relaxed game. Either way, I feel the story would benefit from a choice in difficulty, harder for the tough players, easier/the way it is for the casuals.

I'd quite like that mix as well, SweetNightmare. It'd be a good 'Hatchet' combo, where resources are slim and survival against the elements is hard, but the wildlife is in line with reality. I mean, Voyageur is still my favourite mode, but I would like to time-out from the wolf-fear now and again and have that balance. I hope they consider it as a difficulty option.

[Hackfleisch]

I always keep separate games, a pilgrim for relaxed playing and a voyageur for a bit more intensity. But I notice I like Pilgrim the most, since I mostly play this for the atmosphere and the 'simple living' aspect of spending your days gathering resources, wandering around and just staying alive. Adding the danger of wildlife immediately makes it a lot more intense, and I have to be in the mood for that.

My first real voyageur attempt lasted 17 days and was a constant struggle. It was in Coastal Highway and I was just constantly manoeuvring around or running from wildlife, everywhere I went there was either a wolf or a bear, gathering any resource was incredibly dangerous. Of course it also had the most rewarding moments, but often I don't play this game for the struggle. And while I'm getting better at Voyageur mode, I still prefer being a Pilgrim of the chillpocalypse.

[Frosty]

Being a new player to the game who started with Wintermute I can say that in my experience the challenge to get to Milton by dark was more than enough for starters.

Playing day one on the 1st patch without the ability to sleep  (due to lack of bedroll before being added to cave) and ignorant of the game mechanics I restarted three times ensuring to high tail it fast en route to Milton on my last playthrough. 

Frustrated I went online to school myself a little which only led to further agitation when realizing I couldn't do all the things I have been researching due to the pace of the game controlling the unlocking of abilities and items - not having the rifle until after Broken Railroad felt like a slap to my mouth.

If Wintermute is a tutorial for the gameplay mechanics that is one cruel joke imo. Negating cabin fever and Parisitic meat is an attempt to balance the difficulty that I believe is necessary due to tasks and obligations in addition to your own survival.

I highly advise new players to try Survival or Challenge mode beforehand, you will have a much more enjoyable experience with Wintermute once you have some knowledge of the game and it's world.

[JAFO]

3 hours ago, Frosty said:

I highly advise new players to try Survival or Challenge mode beforehand

Well, maybe not the Challenges.. they pretty much all require detailed map knowledge to succeed at.

[polente]

Hi there. I don't know wether this is the right place to add a wish for the wintermute story mode. Since here are some terms concerning the difficult level I think it's the right place. I'd like to talk about the difficult level in story mode. I must admit that for a new player it must be quite challenging to play wintermute. 

Myself I play the sandbox mode for more than 500 hours (500 hour of precions time spent in front of the screen, omg!). Therefore I think the wintermute storyline should have dirrerent difficulty levels aswell. I played the milton chapter and found it was way too easy for an experienced player. And I think there are many who bought it, like me, on early access and have some skills aswell.

So this is a request to the developers: please add some more challenging difficulty levels to wintermute. I'd rather stop the story mode and wait for an update because playing it in the actual easy way ruins the story mode for me. Meanwhile there's still the survival mode which I still love to play after all these hours.

Thanks a lot,

Stephan

 

[Thrasador]

Personally I have found the story thus far to be ridiculously easy, but I know Episode 2 will kick it up a notch. Episode 1 is basically Voyager wolves, with easier than Pilgrim food and supplies. 

I cannot grasp the people complaining about lack of food/lack of clothes in Episode 1....did they look? There is literally dead deer, bunnies, cattails, rose hips, and mushrooms every 30 meters. You can eat ALL of those things. That's not even counting all the beef jerky, candy bars, and soda that is everywhere.

Even before they put the bedroll in the first cave, if new players actually READ the tool tip for the first car, it basically says you can sleep in it. If they try that and freeze to death....how long does it take for common sense to kick in and light a fire....so you DON'T freeze to death?

You actually have to explore....if you explore and die, you can reload your game. You can't even do that in sandbox. If you die, you die and you start over at the beginning with nothing....now THAT would be tedious. People would have an actual reason to complain about game difficulty, if everyone was stuck doing that tutorial for the first five days every time they died....

If you explore on the way to Milton there is a vest, and socks in a crate by the plane along with beef jerky and a soda. Then 50 feet away there is 4-5 bunnies you can stone, at least 10 cattail stalks, and more jerky and some wood. There's even a campfire where you could cook the bunnies and thaw out the vest and socks while you do it. There were a crap ton of rosehips on your way up there and more on your way out of there. 

Then before the cave there is a free deer. In the cave you get mittens....and a bedroll now after like patch 2 or 3. The dead end has a sewing kit, there was a lot of cloth at the original crash site...fix some clothes in the cave.

Then when you get out....go around a wolf. Scare the patrolling one off with a fire or a torch. Loot the cars....there's soda in glove boxes, candy bars on dash boards, wood in truck beds, hats in back seats. Then go down to the stream....there is two ways to get to the stream, before the bridge and after the bridge. Before you go down to the stream there is more rosehips and mushrooms. There's about another 20 cattails in the river, another 4 bunnies with rocks and sticks. A dead guy by the car with wool mittens and a scarf IN the car on the floor of the passenger side.

Go up on the far end of the river....MORE rosehips, another car with a soda, a shallow cave on the left with wood and mushrooms. Way to the far right a deep cave with like 8 pieces of coal. On the left of the road there is AT LEAST another 15 cattails, another deer, bunnies, rosehips....

Then there's a blue trailer with a bed and a few other goodies INCLUDING cargo pants....How many people don't see the bright blue trailer on the hill to the right of the road....the road is blocked with fallen logs....that means EXPLORE!

Then the church, there is AT LEAST another 20 cattails behind it and ANOTHER free deer with like 4 kilos of meat. The church has a crap ton of books. Two more pieces of headwear....you should have like 5 hats now and at least two pairs of gloves, maybe more. Cloth to fix more clothes. Matches on the books, accelerant in a bucket, a soda by a pew, a granola bar by the bed....

You should have like 70 cattails by now....that's like over 10000 calories of JUST cattails or enough food for Grey Mother even before they lowered it to 8000 calories. You could have eaten like 12 bunnies on the way, and grabbed somewhere between 10-12 kilos of deer meat, without scaring off a wolf for the meat....more if you were willing to do that with a torch.

There's a dead deer right on the main road of Milton. One on a pond in the middle of Milton with even more cattails, and one up behind Grey Mother's house on the way to the radio tower.....with EVEN MORE cattails. There's probably about 100 cattails in Episode 1. There's even more RIGHT before the cave to Episode 2....

This is like 20,000 calories of food or more without looting one house, or the gas station, or the farm in the town of Milton.....

That's enough food for Grey Mother before they lowered the amount, and enough extra food to give you at least 5 days to loot every building in Milton, which probably gives you another 10,000 calories of salty crackers, dog food (gave to her), energy bars, granola bars, candy bars, sodas, peaches, soup,  pork n beans, and jerky.

Her trust rewards let you make some of the best gloves in the game, and she gives you REALLY good boots at 375. If you killed all those bunnies, that's easy to do. There are more bunnies in Milton if you didn't. There's more cargo pants in the bankers house, long johns in a shower, wool socks everywhere, a simple parka and a ski jacket. You get a mackinaw jacket and climbing socks when you get the rope to leave. If you find the all the keys and caches, you get MREs, a magnifying glass for fires, and a ski mask.

There's soooo much good stuff in Episode 1 it's almost insane!

[Hesha]

I've actually just started my first game on Pilgrim difficulty after playing Stalker for hundreds of days back before Interloper came out and I must say, I really like it. Nothing to do with difficulty, I simply prefer Pilgrim because it is the most "realistic" mode the game offers. And by realistic I mean that animals behave more live they would IRL and that you don't have to eat two horses a day.

[Rudlin]

I've only played 3 hours of this game total since I started my lp series on it. It hasn't felt like 3. Feels more like 30, or 300. This game sucks you in, forces a hatchet and a dirty old rifle with 5 rounds total into your hand, and says "hey, you're probably gonna die, but you'll go down fighting". Because that's what The Long Dark is, to me at least. A game about braving the elements, even in the face of certain demise. A game about huddling by the ruins of a fire plagued with ashes because you thought you had enough sticks and reclaimed wood to last you a lifetime as wolves howl in the distance, looking for a bite to eat. The Long Dark is a game about managing your resources, scrounging out the meager inklings of an existence before having almost everything swept away from you in a blizzard, leaving you to try and do it all again. In that sense one could say it's one of the truest "survival" games to come out in a long time. In fact, based on the way it evokes such emotions ranging from pure joy to absolute terror so frequently and in such intense capacities one could almost call it survival horror. Thanks for the post, OP. Really helped me articulate what gets me so worked up about this amazing game Hinterland has come up with.