(Spoiler) Jeremiah Theories

[Thrasador]

Well we know the plane crashed at night from the cut scene, and we know it was because an aurora flared up and his instrument panel/controls went out...

I don't know how the hell he survived the crash....the cockpit was waaaay above that plateau he regained consciousness on....If we try to go that far down off a cliff in one go, we always insta-die. So how he fell from up there and wasn't dead is pretty ridiculous to begin with.

I'm assuming Astrid woke up above him. Closer to the majority of the plane. Since it was dark, she probably had no idea where Will was. Even if she could make out his body down there, she may have thought he was dead....and even if he wasn't she may not have been able to locate a safe way down....so she probably left to get help.

I think she was leaving a trail for him in the event he WAS alive so he could catch up with her if he was able to...

Somewhere along the way we know she was abducted by some of the escaped convicts, as Grey Mother eluded to as much. They may have needed her because one of them was injured and she said she was a doctor. She may have even killed one of them while trying to escape. The blood writing in the bus could have been written with the blood of the dead convict near the bus....it isn't necessarily hers....

I just got to Episode 2, so I don't know much about Jerimiah....but based on videos and what he says in the final cut scene, he did seem to be teaching Will so he could succeed in surviving in this world. As far as his secrets, and the radio, and the code word....I'm not going to guess....I'll wait and find out....

[Fuarian]

On 8/20/2017 at 2:23 AM, SnowWalker said:

I found it strange that she took off and left Will to die at the cash anyway. Why does that always happen in game plane crashes? Whomever you were with in the plane just takes off by themselves and leaves you there without even checking on you, and now you must go out and find them.

Well, he was down in a Ravine and it would be especially hard to see him down there. As well as the fact that the tree hadn't fallen down until 3 days AFTER the storm. For all Astrid knew he could've been dead. Or she simply HAD to move on to find shelter, food and other things to help herself live too. 

[Fuarian]

On 8/20/2017 at 2:23 AM, SnowWalker said:

I found it strange that she took off and left Will to die at the cash anyway. Why does that always happen in game plane crashes? Whomever you were with in the plane just takes off by themselves and leaves you there without even checking on you, and now you must go out and find them.

Well, he was down in a Ravine and it would be especially hard to see him down there. As well as the fact that the tree hadn't fallen down until 3 days AFTER the storm. For all Astrid knew he could've been dead. Or she simply HAD to move on to find shelter, food and other things to help herself live too. 

[Fuarian]

iI think that he lied about the electronics being in his Cabin because he didn't want Will to know he had a radio because he wanted Will to go to Signal Hill.

I also don't think that's a fully fledged radio. It looks more like a transceiver or a morse code transmitter? Even if it is a working radio. It wouldn't work to it's full extent during the Aurora anyways without a proper transmission tower. (it looks tied into the floor but if he can remove it he can just go to the destroyed lookout tower... there's a radio tower there too.) I think that he can use it at the most to receive an oncoming transmission, maybe to at least know his friend is out there after Will sends the message.

As for the message, Wintermute. What does it mean? I personally think it's a codeword for "apocalypse has begun". I think him and Atwood were apocalypse preppers hence why he has a bunker and cabin out in the middle of nowhere. To prepare and avoid the chaos in the cities when everything goes to shit. I think he saw the apocalypse coming but not the QUIET apocalypse. There's no way he could've known about the Aurora shutting shit down. If it's a planned thing by the Forest Talkers I SWEAR to God... and if they did cause it because they didn't like how industry was destroying nature I also SWEAR TO GOD! And if Jeramiah is a Forest Talker or Astrid I ALSO SWEAR TO GOD FOR THE LAST TIME! Because that's too cliche. However Methuselah may be a Forest Talker... Anyways, I think Jerry wants Will to let Atwood know that the end of times has really begun and that they should meet up at his bunker to survive or something. But as to why Jeremiah said it's "the most important thing" beats me and worries me. Because that makes me thing one of those cliches will become a reality. Which would suck so hard. 

But I still don't want to leave Jeremiah behind. Maybe he will rescue us from Mathis in the dam or it could be Methuselah but you never know. Anyways those are my thoughts.

 

[Fuarian]

13 hours ago, Thrasador said:

Well we know the plane crashed at night from the cut scene, and we know it was because an aurora flared up and his instrument panel/controls went out...

I don't know how the hell he survived the crash....the cockpit was waaaay above that plateau he regained consciousness on....If we try to go that far down off a cliff in one go, we always insta-die. So how he fell from up there and wasn't dead is pretty ridiculous to begin with.

I'm assuming Astrid woke up above him. Closer to the majority of the plane. Since it was dark, she probably had no idea where Will was. Even if she could make out his body down there, she may have thought he was dead....and even if he wasn't she may not have been able to locate a safe way down....so she probably left to get help.

I think she was leaving a trail for him in the event he WAS alive so he could catch up with her if he was able to...

Somewhere along the way we know she was abducted by some of the escaped convicts, as Grey Mother eluded to as much. They may have needed her because one of them was injured and she said she was a doctor. She may have even killed one of them while trying to escape. The blood writing in the bus could have been written with the blood of the dead convict near the bus....it isn't necessarily hers....

I just got to Episode 2, so I don't know much about Jerimiah....but based on videos and what he says in the final cut scene, he did seem to be teaching Will so he could succeed in surviving in this world. As far as his secrets, and the radio, and the code word....I'm not going to guess....I'll wait and find out....

I doubt she was abducted but rather attacked. And what you said about them needing her makes total sense. And about the blood being a prisoner's, I guessed that too. And it makes more sense than it being hers. 

 

[Thrasador]

2 hours ago, Fuarian said:

I doubt she was abducted but rather attacked. And what you said about them needing her makes total sense. And about the blood being a prisoner's, I guessed that too. And it makes more sense than it being hers. 

 

Abducted....attacked....potato...potatoe....same difference, lol.

I'm trying to remember what Grey Mother said about the yelling at night.

Typically with convicts one guy is the Alpha who orders the others around....like the dude who was torturing Will for the case code at the end of Episode 2.

At first he was probably yelling at Astrid about medical attention for the injured one, if she did all she could do and then said....that's all I can do he needs a hospital....or I need better medical equipment. The alpha convict probably just shot the injured one because he was slowing them down.....and it would help to establish dominance....

So she may not have killed him either....but then did use his blood to write the message.

I know I'm going back on what I just said....but I don't know that Astrid is the killing type, if she is a doctor that typically saves lives....

[SnowWalker]

You guys are really digging deep with speculation. It's almost comparable to 'Game of Thrones' or 'The Walking Dead' speculation Using Astrid because she's a doctor seems plausible. The only thing I find curious is, why would they, or he, keep her around after she's done with what they wanted?

 

 

[Fuarian]

15 minutes ago, SnowWalker said:

You guys are really digging deep with speculation. It's almost comparable to 'Game of Thrones' or 'The Walking Dead' speculation Using Astrid because she's a doctor seems plausible. The only thing I find curious is, why would they, or he, keep her around after she's done with what they wanted?

 

 

I don't think they intended to. But considering that Astrid wrote a word in someone's blood and managed to survive being attacked by a group of prisoners, wolves, bears and the blistering cold then I can say that she's pretty badass. Maybe because she's a doctor she's seen some pretty tough shit. Actually that's probably it, she does seem like a hothead. 

She probably fought them off if they did try to attack her. But Mathis said she was dead, so maybe she is, (jk) I think she probably got hit pretty damn hard by Mathis and got knocked out or something. But she's still kicking.

[SnowWalker]

2 minutes ago, Fuarian said:

She probably fought them off if they did try to attack her. But Mathis said she was dead, so maybe she is, (jk) I think she probably got hit pretty damn hard by Mathis and got knocked out or something. But she's still kicking.

I think Mathis is lying through his teeth because I guess he wants what's in that case so bad. I think she got away and is hiding and fending for herself in the wilderness. Hence the part in the Wintermute trailer where she's aiming her bow at something, or someone.
The case though...I mean, an axe would break that thing wide open like nothing. Hell you could probably shoot it open. For Mathis to care so much about what's in some stupid case is weird too though? Does he know what's in it? How does he know what's in it? He seemed just curious about it. It's a post apocalyptic world now where anything that was of value before is now invaluable. A good rifle is more valuable than a barrel full of gold. Why does he care about the case so much? Also, in a post apocalyptic world, there's no police force left either. Why does he give a shit about anything except for saving his own skin?

[Thrasador]

I hope Episode 3 picks up with Astrid's version of events in the crash...so we SEE why she left Will....and we SEE what happened with the convicts, even if it is little game play with cutscenes at first. Like if she is being held hostage....obviously she can't explore all of Milton like Will does (and that would explain why she still isn't there six days later screwing around)....but you explore like the room she is locked in to advance the quest. Then another section where she patches up a convict or whatever. Then the scene at the tunnel plays out with her writing the message and probably escaping through the tunnel before the colapse of the tunnel.

After her escape I would like to see it open up like Will's playthrough where she explores whatever map is beyond the colapsed tunnel and she finds a NPC that she helps there and learns how to make a bow and hunt...and does all the stuff she is supposed to do....

I'm not sure if it will eventually connect to Will's playthrough and she rescues him at the dam....that would be cool though! Having the female protagonist rescue the male protagonist would be a good role reversal....and show a strong female character....

Then for the final Episode (Episode 5?) I would like to see two separate versions where you can complete the episode as either Will or Astrid and each one has a different set of objectives to accomplish to complete the Story in Perseverance Mills....which is Pleasant Valley? Like Will needs to get to the signal tower and send the "Wintermute" code word message....

Like they both need to work together to finish the story, but they have to do it separately to cover more ground.

Then once you complete Episode 5 as each of them, you can then import that character into the sandbox as per a normal sandbox game on whichever difficulty....

I really hope they incorporate that last bit...

@Raphael van Lierop, what do you think about two separate Episode 5 playthroughs....one with each protagonist?

Edited August 22, 2017 by Thrasador

[SnowWalker]

1 hour ago, Thrasador said:

I hope Episode 3 picks up with Astrid's version of events in the crash...so we SEE why she left Will....and we SEE what happened with the convicts, even if it is little game play with cutscenes at first. Like if she is being held hostage.

Me too! And the end would be cool also if you're just playing one or the other but one of them is an npc who goes along with you. Any of those scenarios would be awesome.

[Thrasador]

57 minutes ago, SnowWalker said:

Me too! And the end would be cool also if you're just playing one or the other but one of them is an npc who goes along with you. Any of those scenarios would be awesome.

Although it would be awesome if you could switch between the two during gameplay....like at least one of the Resident Evils I played a bit (the one in Africa). ...I doubt they would incorporate that because they would have to invent a totally new gameplay mechanic and add pathing for your "follower" and everything. I don't see them doing that. They could totally let you pick Will or Astrid like you do in sandbox when hitting resume for episode 5. They could also save the last save from Episode 4 so you could then resume again with the other protagonist.

I know basically creating two separate playthroughs for Episode 5 is basically like making TWO Episode 5s....I still think it's a really cool idea.

Maybe if I tag Raphael he'll consider it....

[SnowWalker]

10 minutes ago, Thrasador said:

Although it would be awesome if you could switch between the two during gameplay....like at least one of the Resident Evils I played a bit (the one in Africa). ...I doubt they would incorporate that because they would have to invent a totally new gameplay mechanic and add pathing for your "follower" and everything. I don't see them doing that. They could totally let you pick Will or Astrid like you do in sandbox when hitting resume for episode 5. They could also save the last save from Episode 4 so you could then resume again with the other protagonist.

I know basically creating two separate playthroughs for Episode 5 is basically like making TWO Episode 5s....I still think it's a really cool idea.

Maybe if I tag Raphael he'll consider it....

It would be cool but the way it's going to be is probably already set in stone.

[Djllans]

I think you are missing the biggest clue of all!

Wintermute!  The secret message! What does it mean?  To me it sounds like J is passing something on that will activate/deactivate this whole event!  Theories on Wintermute?  

Or does it just imply what happens if you walk through the frozen Forrest spraining your ankles and wrists and what you become once you're hooked on painkillers and rose hips!

[SnowWalker]

7 minutes ago, Djllans said:

I think you are missing the biggest clue of all!

Wintermute!  The secret message!

I haven't forgotten about it. It's all very puzzling to say the least.

[Thrasador]

5 minutes ago, SnowWalker said:

I haven't forgotten about it. It's all very puzzling to say the least.

I googled it....all I can find out is it was the name of one of two AIs in the Neuromancer novels....and it is a Americanized German surname that means one who is fickle or changes their mind. The root of the first half of the word means "change" and the other half has several meanings including "mind" and "courage."

Edited August 22, 2017 by Thrasador

[Thrasador]

Also, the outline may be done and probably some coding for Episode 3 and maybe 4.....but I sincerely doubt work on Episode 5 has even begun.

I'm  guessing Episode 5 won't be out till next year....probaby at the end of the year, lol.

I don't know that Episodes 3 and 4 will even be done this year....

They are still fixing bugs in Episodes 1 and 2, lol....

Edited August 22, 2017 by Thrasador

[SnowWalker]

1 hour ago, Thrasador said:

I'm  guessing Episode 5 won't be out till next year....probaby at the end of the year, lol.

I don't know that Episodes 3 and 4 will even be done this year....

That's the bummer thing about games with episodes with the inevitable cliffhangers. You have to wait way longer than you would for TV shows with cliffhangers.

[SnowWalker]

1 hour ago, Thrasador said:

The root of the first half of the word means "change" and the other half has several meanings including "mind" and "courage."

So you're saying Winter means change?

[ChillPlayer]

4 hours ago, Thrasador said:

I googled it....all I can find out is it was the name of one of two AIs in the Neuromancer novels....and it is a Americanized German surname that means one who is fickle or changes their mind. The root of the first half of the word means "change" and the other half has several meanings including "mind" and "courage."

ah lol now I know why Wintermute sounds so familiar, it's the Swiss AI in Neuromancer yes, a book I've just read a few months ago. Dunno about the Americanized German part though, Winter means Winter in German and there is "Mut" for courage but not "Mute", it's also pronounced differently (you'd write moot to have it sound the same as "Mut" in German).

Btw I've a new theory about Jeremiah: I think he is either one of the founders of the Forest Talkers or at least strongly affiliated with them. We learn the story of the Dam in the text about Mystery Lake which we receive from him. Forest Talkers sabotaged it back in the 1990ies already and are the main reason why it was finally shut down (after financial strungles, earthquakes and so on). The Story in Wintermute is set in the future (or an alternate universe but I prefer the former) because the world economny is already collapsed, something we haven't achieved yet although we are trying really hard.

So lets say it is 2030, which means Jeremiah would've been between 20-30 years old when the Forest Talkers had the Dam closed for good, perfect age for idealistic activism.  He has knowledge of the dam and the FT and then there's the final scene where he opens the secret hatch with a radio inside. I think he is in contact with the remaining Forest Talkers for unknown reason. But "Jeremiah = Belongs To Forest Talkers" is something I feel quite strongly on my current playthrough.

And lastly: I think it was planned to release all 5 episodes this year, I hope they stick to it

[Thrasador]

27 minutes ago, ChillPlayer said:

ah lol now I know why Wintermute sounds so familiar, it's the Swiss AI in Neuromancer yes, a book I've just read a few months ago. Dunno about the Americanized German part though, Winter means Winter in German and there is "Mut" for courage but not "Mute", it's also pronounced differently (you'd write moot to have it sound the same as "Mut" in German).

Btw I've a new theory about Jeremiah: I think he is either one of the founders of the Forest Talkers or at least strongly affiliated with them. We learn the story of the Dam in the text about Mystery Lake which we receive from him. Forest Talkers sabotaged it back in the 1990ies already and are the main reason why it was finally shut down (after financial strungles, earthquakes and so on). The Story in Wintermute is set in the future (or an alternate universe but I prefer the former) because the world economny is already collapsed, something we haven't achieved yet although we are trying really hard.

So lets say it is 2030, which means Jeremiah would've been between 20-30 years old when the Forest Talkers had the Dam closed for good, perfect age for idealistic activism.  He has knowledge of the dam and the FT and then there's the final scene where he opens the secret hatch with a radio inside. I think he is in contact with the remaining Forest Talkers for unknown reason. But "Jeremiah = Belongs To Forest Talkers" is something I feel quite strongly on my current playthrough.

And lastly: I think it was planned to release all 5 episodes this year, I hope they stick to it

This is where I got the name bit:

https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=wintermute

Wintermute Name Meaning

Americanized spelling of German Wintermut(h), a variant of Wendemuth, a nickname for an inconstant or fickle person, from Middle High German wenden ‘to turn’ + muot ‘mind’,‘sense’, later ‘courage’.

And see the final "h" must be dropped sometimes for mut...or courage....

And also I wrote my prior post from memory....

Edited August 22, 2017 by Thrasador

[Thrasador]

4 hours ago, SnowWalker said:

That's the bummer thing about games with episodes with the inevitable cliffhangers. You have to wait way longer than you would for TV shows with cliffhangers.

Well I was just going by the whole waited three years for the first two episodes....

That being said hopefully most of the heavy lifting is out of the way. They had to make several new maps and overhaul old maps to get the first two episodes out....

Hopefully there is maybe just one more new location....whatever is through the tunnel....and maybe that's connected to that bridge people saw that they couldn't get to...

They also have done a lot of the character model work and animations. They will have to do some more voice over work, but really that doesn't take a lot of studio time....you just have the actors read all the lines a bunch of different ways and then edit together the best versions.....Maybe do a call back later to fix any last minute changes....

The hardest part will probably be all the scripting of the new quests to make sure they trigger correctly and don't all bug out....

That's where they will want to do some serious bug testing....like doing things out of order, not going the right way on maps. Dropping important items on the ground and seeing if they disappear...lol, making sure quest items don't disappear if you die....etc....

Hopefully they learned a lot from the first two episodes as far as play testing goes....

 

 

Edited August 22, 2017 by Thrasador

[Fuarian]

11 hours ago, SnowWalker said:

I think Mathis is lying through his teeth because I guess he wants what's in that case so bad. I think she got away and is hiding and fending for herself in the wilderness. Hence the part in the Wintermute trailer where she's aiming her bow at something, or someone.
The case though...I mean, an axe would break that thing wide open like nothing. Hell you could probably shoot it open. For Mathis to care so much about what's in some stupid case is weird too though? Does he know what's in it? How does he know what's in it? He seemed just curious about it. It's a post apocalyptic world now where anything that was of value before is now invaluable. A good rifle is more valuable than a barrel full of gold. Why does he care about the case so much? Also, in a post apocalyptic world, there's no police force left either. Why does he give a shit about anything except for saving his own skin?

See that's the thing, I think he's more of a sociopath or psychopath. He was a prisoner, "In a world of closed doors" as he says. Where he was locked away. I'm thinking he has some weird fetish with locked cases or something. It disturbs him. He desperately wants to know what's in it because he thinks (in his irrational way) that a locked case is symbolic of the old world where he was a prisoner locked behind bars.

It sounds weird but I honestly can't think of anything else, or since it's a locked case he may think there's something of value in there.

[ChillPlayer]

3 hours ago, Thrasador said:

Americanized spelling of German Wintermut(h), a variant of Wendemuth, a nickname for an inconstant or fickle person, from Middle High German wenden ‘to turn’ + muot ‘mind’,‘sense’, later ‘courage’.

ah I see but I doubt any german speaking person who's not a scholar would know this. What the dictionary describes is commonly known as a "Wendehals" (turncoat).

[Rusty_Old_F250]

I suspect wintemute is a code for a cypher, otherwise, why wouldn't jeremiah radio his buddy himself?

I also suspect jeremiah has a tragic backstory, hence why he lives in the woods, alone. Most of the people I've known that claim they don't like people have been very personable in the past, but something happened that shut them down. Maybe Jeremiah came to Great Bear to work on the Dam, and maybe he had a family. Something happened, maybe a railway accident, maybe a flood related to the dam or a mine, a landslide, or something during the Quakes? Maybe his home was invaded by looters during the Crash and they killed his family? Either way, he lost his family, and he has withdrawn from society. He picked up on the wedding ring awful quick, most guys don't notice details like that so quickly. 

He clearly likes Will and wants him to succeed, why else would he give him his knife? That's a very nice knife, and in a situation like this, you don't just give something like that up.

Sam