Permadeath

[SweetNightmare]

For anyone else that may read this thread feeling upset about permadeath, don't quit! My very first run I died because I didn't realize you could make tinder plugs out of sticks. This was on PILGRIM mode, the most forgiving of all modes. Did I feel dumb? Yeah. Was there a brief shock over my save being deleted? Sure. But I learned how to make tinder and never made that mistake again.

Survival mode's ending is death. Then you start a new survival game. It's part of the charm. I love starting on random to see where it places me. I love seeing where things spawn, what buildings are destroyed. I love starting random Interloper games to see how long I can last. (I've yet to make it past a day, but I get another hour or so with each attempt!)

I would recommend playing Wintermute if you want checkpoint gameplay. Just don't advance the story. I kind of regret not exploring the mountain town area more. I've spent days stockpiling in Wintermute because badly timed blizzards keep stopping me from progressing.

You just have to embrace it. You fall, you get back up. I hope you come back. There's plenty of room in the quiet apocalypse.

 

 

 

[Hotzn]

If real life was a video game, I bet there would be people walking off a cliff and complaining later nobody told them it was permadeath. But real life is not a video game, and people who walk off a cliff do not complain afterwards.

[Mixxut]

Not to be rude, but at the start of the game it says: "how long can you survive?" And if you die you die! That was your own fault. Maybe try not to jump down on a high place by purpose next time?

[alunasmoon]

perma death in this game is a learning curve and like all learning curves you need to take the info you got and use it. this game was tough for me at first due to no jump button bu now i scale up rocks and down them as well practically with no injury .(you know unless im walking in a straight line a sprain 2 wrist and an ankle for no reason) but anyways this is a survival game where you try to survive... your not gonna go out in the woods jump onto the highest rock you can find and say "hey i wounder if i jump off this if ill be ok" no you come at it cautiously . I hope you do get back into it , ive spent hours on this game and proud of it. its a challenge how far can i travel how long can i live. and if i die what did i do wrong cause when its cold dark and your alone you have only you, only you to rely on, only you to talk to, only you to blame. 

[henroe32]

The first rule about TLD is never talk about TLD! (Just kidding)

The second rule of TLD is it's easy to die!

[TROY]

On 8/6/2017 at 8:44 PM, andz said:

I just bought the game and because I know my way around survival games I started in stalker.... "snipped"

I've been making this very same exact point for over two years now. Most of the quitters and bad reviews of this game are from people who "think" they are all that and a bag of chips because of success in other survival games, and they start out on hard difficulties without learning anything about the game first.  Some may say its harsh, but its his own damn fault. He overestimated his own ability and knowledge. That equals dead in survival situations.

And so he has become. 

[JAFO]

2 hours ago, TROY said:

I've been making this very same exact point for over two years now. Most of the quitters and bad reviews of this game are from people who "think" they are all that and a bag of chips because of success in other survival games, and they start out on hard difficulties without learning anything about the game first.  Some may say its harsh, but its his own damn fault. He overestimated his own ability and knowledge. That equals dead in survival situations.

I'd upvote this 10 times if I could.. well said. TLD is exceptionally good at kicking the macho bullshit out of people who approach the game thinking they already know it all.

[Thrasador]

4 hours ago, TROY said:

I've been making this very same exact point for over two years now. Most of the quitters and bad reviews of this game are from people who "think" they are all that and a bag of chips because of success in other survival games, and they start out on hard difficulties without learning anything about the game first.  Some may say its harsh, but its his own damn fault. He overestimated his own ability and knowledge. That equals dead in survival situations.

And so he has become. 

He obviously hadn't had success in any very tough survival games if he thought it was a good idea to try jumping off cliffs to see how far one can fall before dying....

If the games he played didn't have permadeath, how hard were they really?

Oh I died again!? Let me just reaload my last save here.....ta da! Man, I'm awesome at survival games! I should play them all on super hard!

[Monsarona]

I am sorry you feel the need to not play anymore. But if you want to come back I think you will have even more fun.

I suck at this game. I have been playing for a while and I can barely get past a week or two in game. However, the dying is more fun. Everytime I die I can make it maybe 1 more day or 1 more hour. The progress makes dying worth it.

[Djllans]

Just wait until you try Interloper!  Don't get too attached to anything!  

I have to say I agree with the group here on this one...... a game changes so much when you start over at the last save point.  I think it makes Survival more compelling than Story mode.  You die you are done.  But when you figure it out and you start surviving, out thinking and planning through the hardships it is pretty gratifying.  

I am currently on an 80 day interloper run, my best to this point.  Before the wipe I was on a 250 stalker run... too easy, and a 75 day interloper run.

[Sashamorning]

4 hours ago, Djllans said:

I am currently on an 80 day interloper run, my best to this point.

Wow.  Maybe someday I'll really work on Interloper, but just surviving the first day was enough of a challenge for me.

[Stormwolf1O1]

On 8/6/2017 at 8:44 PM, andz said:

I just bought the game and because I know my way around survival games I started in stalker (after completing storymode) aiming for a 200 day survival mission. I have been playing the game for almost a week now, every day for 6 hours, and two days were just hauling thing from A to B.

Then, after I established a base with all tools and 30kg of meat,  I wanted to check how far you can fall without dying. So I just jumped down a cliff and died. Then I discovered the fact that, UNLIKE IN STORY MODE, there is a permadeath in The Long Dark. There has never been any information on that in the menu. Seriously, who klicks "read more" in Steam? I just watched some You Tube let's plays and they never died. So that issue never came up. I even have been reading like 50 pages in the Wiki on how to craft and where to go, and the information never showed up. Seriously, why would you force permadeath on players?

The game has been really great and I enjoyed every second of it, I am sad beyond belief. I have just uninstalled the game and will never recommend it to any one for its forced way of gameplay. It's like World of Warcraft would have decided to lock the camera in first person view, because it's thier vision for the game. Ridiculous. It's 2017. Let me enjoy the game how I like it. It is just so dissapointing.

Why would I even have the motivation to restart the game? I know what I have to do, so from this point, the first week of gameplay would just be re-grinding. It is as exciting as watching paint dry.

For me, permadeath has always been a large part of the game's challenge. It makes you think about risk. What do you have to lose by doing something that may get you killed? Is it worth potentially losing all the hours of gameplay put into this save? Having the ability to respawn would no doubt turn the game into something the devs did not have in mind - a game where you're able to lunge yourself off a cliff on purpose, die, then come back to life with no penalty or perhaps only simply having lost your items where you died. This is The Long Dark, not Minecraft.

While I respect your opinion of the game, understanding that permadeath is not something that everyone can appreciate in a survival game, I still have to disagree with you about to what extent permadeath affects the gameplay experience. It does not necessarily ruin your ability to have fun in the game, nor does it severely limit your ability to enjoy the game in different ways depending on your playstyle. I'm personally a huge fan of the game and have put over 125 hours into it. I urge you to give the game another try, as I'd love to see you realize that the forced permadeath in the game is just another one of its many features, and that the game still has the potential to be very fun.

[Stormwolf1O1]

15 hours ago, Sashamorning said:

Wow.  Maybe someday I'll really work on Interloper, but just surviving the first day was enough of a challenge for me.

Interloper's biggest challenge for me is being at the complete mercy of the spawn chance of matches.

[JAFO]

This may all be moot.. the OP hasn't been back for a week.

On the other hand, the discussion may be interesting to others as well.

[LucidFugue]

Sad to see the OP hasn't come back. I know I've become frustrated at games before because of a bad experience, but usually that reaction comes from a place of passion. That means once I've calmed down it isn't long before I'm thinking about the game and once again full of ideas and possibilities I want to try. 

 

[Stormwolf1O1]

50 minutes ago, LucidFugue said:

Sad to see the OP hasn't come back. I know I've become frustrated at games before because of a bad experience, but usually that reaction comes from a place of passion. That means once I've calmed down it isn't long before I'm thinking about the game and once again full of ideas and possibilities I want to try. 

 

Same here. It doesn't take long after dying before I'm ready to jump back into it again and start a new save.

[TROY]

12 hours ago, LucidFugue said:

Sad to see the OP hasn't come back. I know I've become frustrated at games before because of a bad experience, but usually that reaction comes from a place of passion. That means once I've calmed down it isn't long before I'm thinking about the game and once again full of ideas and possibilities I want to try. 

 

Hell, I've been pulling my hair and caterwauling over a few things in this game that have made me want to abandon it many times over a couple years now.  Here I am, still playing and still complaining and if anybody asked I'd tell em this game is worth twice its price.  

[andz]

Let me tell you a story to make my point clear: Imagine Michelangelo created a marble statue so beautiful eveybody wants to see it. People who have seen it tell you stories of its beauty with tears in thier eyes. So you draw a random number in a tombola and stand there for hours, but finally when your number is called and you are able to see it, only a random part of its body is illuminated, and that part changes every time you que up. Why is it not possible to explore the whole statue without the painful tombola grind?

Would you line up?

Would you enjoy the thrill of the tombola?

After you have seen the first part of the statue and know that only one part is visible at the same time, would you rejoice or loose interest?

If you are a connaisseur of arts you will probably tell everyone how brilliant that was.

Most importantly: If such a beautiful piece of art exists, why not let everyone decide which way they want to enjoy it? 

 

I am back giving it another try. I am curious to see what's new in the game. I have read only resonable replys to a post that was not written with a calm hand. Bravo.

However, still, the way I enjoy games is to build something up and invest time, energy and emotion into it and watch it grow. That is why I have played WoW and other games that require long-term investments. I am not sure I can accommodate to this style of survival game, but I acknowledge the sweat that has been put into it and its quality. Therefore I will give it another try. However, I am not sure if the potential demise in every possible moment will help bonding with the game or prevent it.

Some of the greatest fun I had in other survival games was to try something amazing, like winning an impossible fight. That would have never been possible without checkpoints. There is so much enjoyment in controlling an uncontrollable situation with limited tools. I personally think being cornered by a angry bear with just a knife and being able to escape after reloading 10 times actually would be more fun than never go out on an adventure in the first place because its too dangerous. I know there are other games for this, but this game's setting is so beautiful that I still believe it is wasting potential by not having that single checkbox that could turn it into an adventure game and bring it to a whole new audience. However, then at the same time it is that unwillingness to make compromises that a gaming developing studio needs to believe in its vision and to not turn into *insert money hungry publisher*.

This are my experiences in the past:

While taking care of the players sustenance is challening the game is one of its best. You can feel the cold, the danger. But then there is a turning point. It starts when you start exploring. I caught myself multiple times not exploring because I didn't have to and it could have been dangerous. So survival is the challenge? There is a problem here. Because if you have understood all of the games principles, sat down with an excel sheet and calculated what you need to do, make a plan, then the challenge to survive is not that pressing any more. And here is a problem. How do I keep the player engaged after he has analyzed all of the game mechanics and knows them by heart? 1) make it random 2) increase the difficulty dynamically as the game progresses 3) make the mechanics fun even though they are repetitive (by minigames etc.)

Sorry I am drunk and happy new Year!

[omoon66]

Hahaha, good one! Wait...you’re not kidding? Seriously? That’s just sad. Permadeath is a big core feature of TLD.  Sure I know you were just testing something, but you could do that in another sandbox (which is why they introduced multiple sandboxes). And as for permadeath not being in Story, it saves frustrastion. Imagine having to go through the entire story after dying, then watching all the cutscenes again. And I know the frustration of death in sandbox, but the point is to survive as long as possible. It would be cheating death without permadeath. The point is to learn from your mistakes, and I’m surprised you didn’t die from the thousands of wolves first, which is great. But the “grinding” is late game, and early game is the most exiting part. You don’t have any resources, you have to plan every move carefully, the cold (and wolves) are constsntly a problem, and more. Late game those start to go away, when you can go outside in freezing temps, but you got 5 layers of homemade coats and such, and popping wolves bears and deer in the face with your level 5 bow skill, it gets boring. And frankly, uninstalling the game because you died once, is childish. Get over it, learn from your mistakes, and get ready to face more challenges, because that’s what life is. How are you not dead from the thousands of wolves (problems) of the world we live in?

[mystifeid]

46 minutes ago, andz said:

Would you line up?

Apparently I would.

 

46 minutes ago, andz said:

then the challenge to survive is not that pressing any more.

Never, ever try Interloper.

[ingrobny]

On 7.8.2017 at 2:44 AM, andz said:

aiming for a 200 day survival mission.

If you aim for a 200 day survival, you should not go and jump out of cliffs, to see if you die or not. With permadeath 200 days of survival is hard and it should be, if you could load a save and continue, what is the fun in that?

I have died 3 times on voager, first time after 80 days i think and with every death i learned what to not do, i have almost died 2-3 times after that, but now i have survived for 340 some days.

And when you are about to start a new survival mode, the game tells you that the only way out is dead or something like that, so from that i knew it wasn't any load of a save if i died, die and the game is over.

[cekivi]

Welcome to the forums @andz

Permadeath is here to stay. Like the above folks pointed out though, it does serve a purpose and keeps the tension high in the sandbox. Many a player fades into the long dark due to hubris. More so than anything else I'd wager. 

[hozz1235]

There are ways around permadeath (backing up save games, mods, etc.).  There are those that don't want permadeath but want to enjoy everything else the game has to offer (I'm one of those).  I see no issue with changing the game so as to maximize my enjoyment of it.

[Prestermatt]

I'm not 100% sold on permadeath.  Different people play the game for different reasons, and not everybody wants the challenge or has the time to start over with one bad mistake.

Given that we now have Custom Sandbox options, I think the best solution would be to keep the standard modes as is, but have an option in Custom to turn off permadeath.  I doubt it would be too much of a strain on the save system to work that in.  It doesn't change the base experience one bit, while providing the option to those who want it.

[Carbon]

Permadeath is the way TLD should be played and if it ever went away, so would the tension that makes the game as compelling as it is. I've said this many times: be careful what you wish for because without the constant danger of losing it all is a heartbeat, any victory is rendered far less meaningful.

 Keep it brutal; no hand-holding, no mercy, a razor-thin margin of error, 'cause that's where the fun is.

 While not endorsed by HL, it is well-known that one can back up saved games easily and while it won't put one right back to the second before the fatal moment, it is an option for those who need some measure of insurance. If that's what stops someone from playing, well, the gamer in me says fine, but I also want the game to thrive, so backup if that will keep you playing.