Let us make bandages great again!


Mroz4k

Bandage overhaul  

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 So, yea, bandages. Current issue of most players who try to play the lasting games. At the moment, bandages are used when you treat the blood loss, and can be crafted out of cloth which is a resource also used to repair clothes and make a dozen of other items via crafting. And that is why I believe this was suggested times and times again, no doubt.
I think the bandages should be re-usable. The Faithful Cartographer update which brought in smelliness into the game can help a lot with making this a balanced situation.
Here is my idea:

Main suggestion:

Whenever you use a bandage to treat blood loss, the bandage will become "bloody". This will turn it into a semi-powerful smelly item which can be used as a bait.

- In order to turn it into a regular bandage, you need to "boil" it - it would be a Campfire cooking option "wash the bandage" which would require 0,5 of potable water (to make it somewhat expensive).

- Bloody bandage can be used to stop bleeding again, but it will instantly give you "Infection" sickness.
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This allows players to choose - do they discard the bloody bandages and make new ones, or take them home despite they attract wildlife? Throw them away, or use this rather expensive cleaning method to turn them into regular bandages again?

To make this more "lucrative" with players, the new crafting method would be 1 cloth = 1 bandage.

Optional suggestion:

Bandages can be used to treat "sprained" limbs. This would "remove" bandage from inventory, and change "sprained ankle/wrist" into a "treated sprained ankle/wrist" - basically the same condition, but with weaker debuffs.

- You would still need to use the painkillers/rose hip tea or sleep to remove it entirely.

- Only once you cured them entirely, you would get your bandage back - it would be "dirty bandage" - which does not smell and attract wildlife, but still needs to be washed.

- You can use dirty bandages to treat sprains with no debuf.

- you can use bloody bandages to treat sprains with no debuf, but you would constantly "smell". Curing the effect will give you "bloody bandage" back.

- you can use weapons with treated sprained wrist and you can sprint with treated sprained ankle, but weapons would have bigger sway and sprint would be slower and more exhausting.

- You cannot climb ropes.

- using a dirty bandage to treat blood loss results in instant "infection" sickness.

- Once treated, the players could not sprain that particular limb again.

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This would help improve the current sprain system in-game which is rather bad, since it offers some massive debuffs for what is essentially a "random" encounter in game,  as well as offer some new ways to perform self-treatment and make the game more realistic.

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Feel free to discuss and suggest your own improvements! I think these changes are rather balanced and realistic, and would greatly improve the current bad "spraining" mechanic as well as offer new challenges with the medical system that is currently in place. There are significant issues if one is not careful to use sterilized bandages to treat wounds, it would open more realistic encounters where players might find already dirty bandages while looting (not bloody ones, I imagine noone would be foolish enough to use a bloody rag from someone else to treat themselves), and the infection sickness would be an excellent punishment for performing a mistake during self-treatment.
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In real life, I wash bandages a lot because I have genetically weak ankles and I sprain them a lot. I would wash bandages and boil them to sterilize them quite often, and I even used such a washed bloody bandage to treat a blood loss in the past without getting an infection later on. So it can be done. 

 

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Re-usable bandages - this was really done in World War 1 as I recall.

Its a great idea - I just see no easy way of implementing it; because:

  • Wounds Post Treatment ARE NOT tracked (AFIKS)
  • Wound healing logic isn't there
  • Bandages currently go bye-bye (now) so existing wounds that were treated won't work for saved games

Also while cloth is NOT very reusable/renewable - bandages arn't hard to make or even find occasionally.

There would need to be some kind of quasi-aliment added JUST to track the bandaged wound. (also field-surgery ain't there either, so these are all magical super-bandages that suture tissue too!)

In short the simulation provided in the game is far too shallow for such a serious game mechanic.

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On 8.8.2017 at 2:49 AM, Melchior said:

Re-usable bandages - this was really done in World War 1 as I recall.

Its a great idea - I just see no easy way of implementing it; because:

  • Wounds Post Treatment ARE NOT tracked (AFIKS)
  • Wound healing logic isn't there
  • Bandages currently go bye-bye (now) so existing wounds that were treated won't work for saved games

Also while cloth is NOT very reusable/renewable - bandages arn't hard to make or even find occasionally.

There would need to be some kind of quasi-aliment added JUST to track the bandaged wound. (also field-surgery ain't there either, so these are all magical super-bandages that suture tissue too!)

In short the simulation provided in the game is far too shallow for such a serious game mechanic.

 

On 8.8.2017 at 2:49 AM, Melchior said:

Re-usable bandages - this was really done in World War 1 as I recall.

Its a great idea - I just see no easy way of implementing it; because:

  • Wounds Post Treatment ARE NOT tracked (AFIKS)
  • Wound healing logic isn't there
  • Bandages currently go bye-bye (now) so existing wounds that were treated won't work for saved games

Also while cloth is NOT very reusable/renewable - bandages arn't hard to make or even find occasionally.

There would need to be some kind of quasi-aliment added JUST to track the bandaged wound. (also field-surgery ain't there either, so these are all magical super-bandages that suture tissue too!)

In short the simulation provided in the game is far too shallow for such a serious game mechanic.

I kinda like the idea, but I think this would be a little too complex. It isn't a bad idea tough!

 

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On 8. 8. 2017 at 1:49 AM, Melchior said:

Re-usable bandages - this was really done in World War 1 as I recall.

Its a great idea - I just see no easy way of implementing it; because:

  • Wounds Post Treatment ARE NOT tracked (AFIKS)
  • Wound healing logic isn't there
  • Bandages currently go bye-bye (now) so existing wounds that were treated won't work for saved games

Also while cloth is NOT very reusable/renewable - bandages arn't hard to make or even find occasionally.

There would need to be some kind of quasi-aliment added JUST to track the bandaged wound. (also field-surgery ain't there either, so these are all magical super-bandages that suture tissue too!)

In short the simulation provided in the game is far too shallow for such a serious game mechanic.

4

It was done in most Wars, as resources are kind of hard to come by. Probably not in the recent ages, tho, as this practice is not considered super sanitary, but we live in a super-clean age mentality and there is just no place for that in a survival situation. But you are right, WW1 is the first that comes to my mind too, as that was right before modern nursing techniques were invented (during the WW1, actually).

I see no reason why it shouldn't be possible to implement, I think I explained it pretty well:
Imagine it as "treating a specific scenario, curing it, but in the process also contracting a weaker version of scenario". To explain it on bandaging of the sprained limbs: You would "cure" the sprain by a bandage, and you would immediately contract "weaker sprain" affliction instead. 
Same with the "bandages" - the "clean" bandage would disappear if used to clean blood loss. Instead, using the bandage would create "bloody one" at the same time. The only change would be that the "successful blood loss treatment" would "spawn" a bloody bandage, as well as despawning the "clean" one. Then, the boiling treatment would "despawn" the bloody bandage and spawn the clean one, similarly like cooking a "raw deer steak" despawns the raw meat and spawns its cooked version instead.

Rather than seeing the bandages as magical, I think the game only counts with the player, contradicting some minor to mid-serious wounds, but nothing worth suturing. Because let's be real, the absolute majority of people would die while attempting suturing, mostly because they lack the medical knowledge. Most of the home self-suturing performed would be on non-serious wounds. The point of suturing is to close of arteries and veins that have been cut, and for that, you really need medical knowledge. Bandage to slow down blood loss for the affected area to let the body deal with the blood loss on its own makes much more sense, because if you were attempting suturing, you would need to work with the open wound and that means full out blown blood loss, possibly even greater one caused by the manipulation. 

Having to suture a wound after the bleeding would stop to get full functionality later on would be kind of cool addition, I could totally get behind that. Would need a fishing tackle, would use up the fishing line and you would get the hook back. That would be kind of cool, and would make "blood loss punishment" all the more serious which I am all for that.

The situation I proposed is still very simplified - technically, you would cure the blood loss with the bandage, the bloody bandage would be on you and would smell to the wildlife all the same (very tastily I presume) and you would need to rest to deal with the wound naturally while occasionally switching the bandages for fresh ones as they would soak through, while constantly rehydrating to support blood creation which compensates for all the blood lost. Bandage would not stop bleeding but would slow it down, how significantly would depend on the wound, and even then, if an artery got severed, the player would just die regardless of treatment, as the bleeding would be too much to stop by any conventional means except for one.
Self-quarterization

As primitive as it sounds, this really is the only way to stop any sort of serious bleeding in a survival situation.  Just make a fire, and stuff a burning charcoal down the wound to burn all the severed arteries shut. To even succeed in that in general, you would need to get a fire going immediately, so that means accelerant. And the pain would be unimaginable... pretty sure most people would pass out immediately, which presents another set of problems... what if the quarterization was not successful? That means likely death through bleeding out while passed out. Black gunpowder would probably make quarterization easier and more effective but no less painful, though it removes the necessity of starting a fire, as you would just pour it over the wound and light a match to it.

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I like the idea of having to treat the wounds post-trauma, I think it could propose some cool challenge.

What about something like this:
After contracting the blood loss and treating it with the bandage, you would get a 4-day long affliction "fresh wound". It would not impair the player in any way, but any sort of physically exhausting feats like "sprinting", "climbing", "freezing" etc would have a certain chance of causing Blood loss affliction again, along with the infection risk all over again. In order to prevent that, you would need to self-suture the wound with a fishing tackle. This removes the tackle, takes 20 minutes, and gives you the hook back - it also "treats" the "fresh wound" by turning it into "sutured wound". This would prevent contraction of "blood loss" during exhausting activities, but there would be a very small chance you would "tear" your sutures, you would get the "fresh wound" affliction again and you would need to self-suture once more. The affliction would either disappear entirely after the said 4 days or if you would contract the blood loss again, it would be reset once more.

This would make any sort of blood loss injury very punishing, as it should be. Maybe there could be a small decrease in how often the wolves cause the blood loss, but I personally don't think so, as long as the bandages become re-usable.

Additionally, putting this into place, I think the First Aid skill would be a great addition to the game as well. 

First Aid skill would have a huge range of utilities, as your skill grows you would be able to clean bandages more efficiently, use up fewer plants for healing items while creating bigger amount of healing items, your sutures would be less likely to tear and you could perform the bandaging much faster.

First aid skill books are a logical choice, and the already existing tailoring skill could perhaps make suturing "faster" the better tailor you are.

Finally, a very skilled survivor might even be able to treat frostbite, though I expect the aftermath of such treatment would still require some serious detriments, but I can definitely see an expert First Aid survivor using the modern improvised water therapy and minor self-surgery techniques to clean the frostbitten limb of all the decayed debris to help it heal properly.

Once I have some more free time, I will try to come up with a proper list of possible recipes, skills and bonuses and new, more advanced First Aid techniques which I think would be really cool if added into the game.

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My thanks to @Melchior for his opinion on this issue, it has been quite invaluable. Additionally, I would like to give my thanks to everyone who voted on the poll with "yes", your support is greatly appreciated. If you have any ideas on how to improve them, please comment!

I have a few questions for a couple of people: @Mpat120 and @Mixxut , you both voted "no" on both the main suggestion and the optional one, but did not comment on either. Please, explain your viewpoints on the situation - why do you think those suggestions should not make it into the game? Can you think of any way to improve them, maybe?

Similar question goes to @henroe32: Why do you think the optional suggestion should not make it into the game? Got any idea on how to make it better?

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As for 1, I find enough wolves without having to use a bait, and reusing a bandage only to get infected seems just a slower death late game to me. Boiling it and reusing im not opposed to as I can see the utility.

As for 2, Using a bandage to stabilize a sprain to restore (slower) movement I can see, but the pain without the use of painkillers should not allow the use of weapons other than in a wolf fight (at a 50% effectiveness loss).

On cauterization, while it is effective at stopping blood loss, it does however have a huge risk of infection without proper wound care. Im not opposed to having it in game with the appropriate drawbacks.

BTW I was trained as a CLS (Combat Life Saver) not a medic or anything so grand, so my medical knowledge is limited to care on an active battlefield and medical field manuals read for TSHTF purposes. 

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Just now, Mpat120 said:

As for 1, I find enough wolves without having to use a bait, and reusing a bandage only to get infected seems just a slower death late game to me. Boiling it and reusing im not opposed to as I can see the utility.

As for 2, Using a bandage to stabilize a sprain to restore (slower) movement I can see, but the pain without the use of painkillers should not allow the use of weapons other than in a wolf fight (at a 50% effectiveness loss).

Sounds like first is more of a "personal" experience. Personally, I carry around baits everywhere so I would rather take the bandage with me since I can pop down some carved rabbit bits, but I kill the wolves on encounter anyways, often using those said baits. For me, it would not be an issue.

Which is why I think it would be nice if players had the option - you would get that smelly bandage either way, but you can choose to immediately discard it if you wish so. Also makes blood treatment a tiny bit more punishing, because the bit you get the bloody bandage, you would be smelly for a little while. And you tell me - would you not throw the bandage away, hoping the chasing wolf goes for it rather than for your previous wolf bite. Throwing it off to lose your pursuers for a bit makes sense.

As for 2, that would not be a problem. In life-or-death struggle scenario, the body is swimming in so much adrenaline you would not realize any pain coming from the sprain only after the effect - that is the whole point of pain, it is just a warning mechanism that something is wrong. I can guarantee that with my semi-limited medical knowledge and experience.

Actually, during my latest hike, I managed to sprain my ankle (again), but knowing the bus schedules meant my last bus out of the mountains would come in 45 minutes from a 2 kilometer distant bus station, the prospect of having to camp out in the night with wounded leg, no time to build proper shelter (it was already dusk) and a looming serious thunder storm, I was in such a hurry I did not mind my ankle one bit. I took no painkillers, just pure terror of having to sleep in a thunderstorm without a proper shelter, battered and already cold and wet, no fire and a wounded ankle has had my limping for my life never mind the pain.

The point of sprained wrist is not in the "pain" it makes, you tell me - would you not take up a rifle if a bear was approaching you despite it hurting you? I would... the point of a sprain is that you are physically not able to hold it lifted up - the muscles just won't work the way they should, because they are crippled by the pain too much. That is the point of bandaging it - the bandage won't take away the pain of it, but it will give you better functionality than without it. And that is before the struggle... during one, adrenaline would kick in and you would feel less pain till it wore off, makes you get full functionality.

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21 minutes ago, Mroz4k said:

Which is why I think it would be nice if players had the option

Its not game breaking either way for me, Im not opposed to the option of having a bait I just dont want to see super complexity/redundancies start to emerge.

 

21 minutes ago, Mroz4k said:

In life-or-death struggle scenario

I know first hand this is true, but dont want it to be usable/exploited in game as "Ok im hurt but im gona continue this hunt to get a bedroll" instead of "Ok im hurt, I need to rest this before I find trouble". I dont like the way pain killers work in game as a magic cure without side effects either. 

One of the reasons I was retired from the Service is I ignored a sprained ankle to many times....and finally tore the tendons lose from the bone, now I live without the pain but have to watch how/where I walk.....or fall on my face when I forget I no longer have those tendons in my leg. 

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18 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

My thanks to @Melchior for his opinion on this issue, it has been quite invaluable. Additionally, I would like to give my thanks to everyone who voted on the poll with "yes", your support is greatly appreciated. If you have any ideas on how to improve them, please comment!

I have a few questions for a couple of people: @Mpat120 and @Mixxut , you both voted "no" on both the main suggestion and the optional one, but did not comment on either. Please, explain your viewpoints on the situation - why do you think those suggestions should not make it into the game? Can you think of any way to improve them, maybe?

Similar question goes to @henroe32: Why do you think the optional suggestion should not make it into the game? Got any idea on how to make it better?

I responded. I said that I kinda liked the idea, but i think it would be too complex. I don't hate the idea tho.

 

 

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19 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

My thanks to @Melchior for his opinion on this issue, it has been quite invaluable. Additionally, I would like to give my thanks to everyone who voted on the poll with "yes", your support is greatly appreciated. If you have any ideas on how to improve them, please comment!

I have a few questions for a couple of people: @Mpat120 and @Mixxut , you both voted "no" on both the main suggestion and the optional one, but did not comment on either. Please, explain your viewpoints on the situation - why do you think those suggestions should not make it into the game? Can you think of any way to improve them, maybe?

Similar question goes to @henroe32: Why do you think the optional suggestion should not make it into the game? Got any idea on how to make it better?

I responded. I said that I kinda liked the idea, but i think it would be too complex. I don't hate the idea tho.

 

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Personally I just feel that sprains are a highly underrated injury in magnitude in this game. If you sprain your ankle you will have a hard time walking and so will be forced to limp (as you do in game) but foi g this with a 30kg weight on your back is questionable. Although it is highly recommended that sprains are treated through being wrapped tightly (with a bandage say) I disagree that this should just fix your sprain giving the ability to then do normal activities. A normal sprain can take days to heal but in this game can be solved with a few painkillers. Sprains need to be dramatically emphasised and although a bandage would aid recovery it would not heal you as fast as you would like.

mys suggestion is to use a system where a sprain will take a few days to heal definitely but can be sped up by wrapping in a bandage and not using the limb. Time for healing should also be increased by activity using the limb affected and sprinting with a bad leg should be out of the question but hand actions should just be severely reduced in ability and speed. Painkillers should work temporarily in a similar way to the emergency stim to drastically reduce the negative effects for a short time to allow you to reach shelter or whatever but definitely not completely heal you.

https://beta.nhs.uk/conditions/sprains-and-strains/

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
On 12. 8. 2017 at 4:33 PM, henroe32 said:

A normal sprain can take days to heal but in this game can be solved with a few painkillers. Sprains need to be dramatically emphasised and although a bandage would aid recovery it would not heal you as fast as you would like.

While my personal (almost daily) experience with real life and easily sprained ankles kind of dissagree with this statement, there is some truth to it - meaning that not all sprains can be healed in a manner of few hours, or with few painkillers.

I see how the game sprains can, however, be this way - its a game mechanic, so it needs to be treated easily.

But that has led me to further thought - what if the current sprains were a progressive affliction? Meaning that an untreated sprain could result in a fracture, which would hold similar, only more brutal restrictions than the sprain, and if still untreated properly, could even result in a permanent injury?
Quoting my general thought on a different topic:
 

  Reveal hidden contents


What I could get behind are "fractures" - not a permanent maiming, but an affliction that will work as a longer, tougher sprain. I imagine that a tussle with a wolf while having a sprained wrist in the first place could easily result in a fracture - which would prevent the player similarly like a sprained wrist does, only though it could not be healed through painkillers, painkillers would only give the player back the functionality for an hour or so... at a cost of 6 painkillers.

Would be cured by sleeping at least 6 hours a day for the next two weeks, and re-applying a split every couple of days. Imagine going in a game for 14 days without being able to climb ropes, or being able to equip weapons (fractured wrist) - so in order to hunt, you would need to pop a lot of painkillers, or resort to other food sources for the time being like fishing.

Potentionally I could see "permanent maiming" be a result of overstressing a fracture, or improperly treating it (I imagine you would need to create a split and keep it repaired.) 

Permanent punishments should not be a subject to random occurences, but rather as a punishment for improper care for one´s own health. I can see "permanently maimed" condition with wrists, increasing sway of weapons, and "permanently maimed" condition with ankles, decreasing movement speed - and these would be stackable, the same way frostbite is.

 

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Progressive Sprain mechanic:

Stage 1: Sprain. The same way they work right now. 

Stage 2: Fracture. If you do not treat your sprain, eventually you are running a risk of getting a fracture. This can be done through intense scenarios like animal struggles, using sprained limbs for extended periods of time without treating them (24 hours?) (or possibly at least wrapping them with bandage, if applied with the idea of "renewable bandages suggestion" previously.)
Fracture has the same kind of impairments like sprain does - but in order to heal it, you need to create a splint (two bandages and 5 sticks) and re-apply it every 3 days of curing the condition. It is a "lenghty affliction" like Parasites - in order to fully cure fracture, you must sleep at least 6 hours a day for next 14 days. 
Painkillers can be used to relieve the fracture - For the cost of 6 painkillers, you will be able to use the fractured limb normally, for an ingame hour.  However, doing so also increases a risk of getting to a Stage 3.

Stage 3: permanent damage - this basically means you didnt cure your fracture responsibly, and because of it, it grew in improperly, resulting a permanent impairment. 
Permanently mained wrist - 15% bigger sway on weapons.
Permanently mained ankle - 15% slower movement speed.
These conditions are stackable, just like Frostbite. 
The way permanent damage happens is exactly the same like Parasite risk - by performing actions and putting too much stress on your fractured limbs (using fractured wrist to hunt, walking for miles on a fractured ankle) - you would have a risk of permanent damage increase. Once you would successfuly finished curing your fracture, the "risk" would roll and you would get the permanent damage, if the game rolled "yes", based on the percentage risk.

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@Mroz4k - This is a really great line of thinking!  I am all for the implementation of injuries/ailments that require extended treatment.  It seems to me that this is the next logical step to making the game more comprehensive. 
 

7 minutes ago, Mroz4k said:

Painkillers can be used to relieve the fracture - For the cost of 6 painkillers, you will be able to use the fractured limb normally, for an ingame hour.  However, doing so also increases a risk of getting to a Stage 3.

I really like this element - pain killer should only do just that - kill pain.  Not heal.

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FYI: I haven't read the other posts yet, I'm just commenting on the poll/OP :D 

I think both ideas are neat but not quite perfect.

1. Bandages would also have to decay. Otherwise you could have an "infinite" bandage just through boiling. This would unbalance the current cloth economy making repairs easier as cloth would be less scarce. If you're an older player think of how scrap metal was in the early alphas before the hacksaw was introduced. Having greater scent alone wouldn't be enough of a detriment. 

2. I really like this idea. I'd just make it a whole piece of cloth as opposed to a bandage. It just seems more realistic. Also, how would a sling help an ankle sprain? Or am I misunderstanding and you intended the "dirty bandage" to be used as a compression bandages to stabilize the joint directly? If so, wouldn't whole cloth again be better?

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1 hour ago, cekivi said:

2. I really like this idea. I'd just make it a whole piece of cloth as opposed to a bandage. It just seems more realistic. Also, how would a sling help an ankle sprain? Or am I misunderstanding and you intended the "dirty bandage" to be used as a compression bandages to stabilize the joint directly? If so, wouldn't whole cloth again be better?

Quite possibly, but if we were to use Cloth directly, we would make it somewhat easier-to-use this way, as players could just easily find cloth or tear up an extra piece of clothing to support their sprains this way, if we use bandages, then we also force them to spend the time, turning the cloth into bandages (and that also means that cloth will no longer be usable for other items like cloth repairing). 
Also, when I see cloth, I see a piece of clean rag, but when I think "crafted bandage" I see a half of this clean rag, torn into short, thin stripes which are then sewed together, something like a cotton scarf (as a kid, I made a "scarf" like that out of old t-shirt) - I feel like the second one would be more useful for "strenghtening" joints, as its easier to wrap around the sore part. 

1 hour ago, cekivi said:

1. Bandages would also have to decay. Otherwise you could have an "infinite" bandage just through boiling. This would unbalance the current cloth economy making repairs easier as cloth would be less scarce. If you're an older player think of how scrap metal was in the early alphas before the hacksaw was introduced. Having greater scent alone wouldn't be enough of a detriment. 

That was kind of the point, honestly - to make the bandages "infinite" in a way, through expensive trade-off in water and firewood. But I like the idea of decay on individual bandages... each time the bandage would be used, or boiled, its condition could drop. This makes then re-usable (even for the sprains) , but at the same time, not infinite. Even if the use of a bandage dropped its condition by simply 5%, it would mean at least 10% condition drop for every "wrapping + boiling" cycle. That puts each new bandage to 10 uses. If a single cloth is used to create one bandage only, I think this would be fair.

Additionally, having it drop by 5% condition per use, and 10% condition per boiling, I think that would be pretty fair as well. Thats at minimum 15% condition drop for the whole "cycle". However, if this was the case, I would keep the crafting recipe to 2 bandages per cloth.

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11 hours ago, Timber Wolf said:

I really like this element - pain killer should only do just that - kill pain.  Not heal.

Honestly, I feel the current "sprain limb" system as more of a "sore" then an actual injury. At least thats how I understood it - when I happen to sprain my ankle, it hurts quite a lot (and I have pretty high pain tolerance, I think), sometimes enough that I have a difficulty to even limp on it... but if I get a good night of sleep, I am fine in the morning and the ankle works as good as new. I dont think its the "sprain" kind of injury most people are familiar with, the one where you need to have it bind-together in a hospital in some semi-flexible plaster for a couple of days. 

I have a custom of popping painkillers when I sprain my ankle on a hike too, it wont "cure" it, but it will numb the pain for solid 5 hours which is what I usually need to get home to a bed and have my rest.

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I really like this idea. I disagree that re-using a bandage would cause instant infection though. Infection is never instant, and could still be treated with disinfectant. It should give a rather high infection risk though, that may require multiple treatments. 

As for "sprains", I've always just assumed its simply a name for an injury that people understand. There's no way a real sprain could be treated with two ibuprofen or a few hours rest.  Bad sprains can sometimes take longer to heal than a broken bone. The actual injury we are suffering is a "strain" or pulled tendon/ligament that, while is very painful and debilitating, heals quickly with very little lasting effect. 

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On 8/11/2017 at 2:45 PM, Mroz4k said:

Self-quarterization

As primitive as it sounds, this really is the only way to stop any sort of serious bleeding in a survival situation.  Just make a fire, and stuff a burning charcoal down the wound to burn all the severed arteries shut. To even succeed in that in general, you would need to get a fire going immediately, so that means accelerant. And the pain would be unimaginable... pretty sure most people would pass out immediately, which presents another set of problems... what if the quarterization was not successful? That means likely death through bleeding out while passed out. Black gunpowder would probably make quarterization easier and more effective but no less painful, though it removes the necessity of starting a fire, as you would just pour it over the wound and light a match to it.

This though, is total Hollywood first aid.  Cauterizing a wound is NEVER a good idea. NEVER.   Direct pressure, either on the wound, or on an arterial pressure point, (ideally, both) will stop even the most severe bleeding.   This, and a tourniquet, (which is a last resort technique, used only if a limb has been severed, or when its abundantly clear that an amputation will be the end result of the injury.) have been glamorized by movies and fictional books to the point that many people think they are viable treatments for bleeding.  They are not. 

Edit: for the inevitable examples that will surely follow, I admit, there are times, under sterile, medically controlled circumstances that cauterization is actually used, with specialized medical equipment and by trained M.D.'s.  NOT with hot coals, or red hot hunting knives or kerosene torches.

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I voted "no" on both suggestions. Not because they are bad, but because I think there are more rewarding issues the developers should turn their attention to. In detail:

1. I don't think that fleshing out the bandage "system" would be worthwhile at the moment. Making bandages re-usable does not seem necessary, since there is so much cloth in the game that you should never run out of bandages (unless you plan to do insanely long Interloper runs). And creating bait by producing a bloody bandage also seems moot, since it is very easy (and far more intuitive) to use meat or fish as bait. Carrying around bloody bandages to later wash them would also be too much micromanagement in my view. This is debatable of course, because increased realism regularly brings increased micromanagement, and it is a matter of taste how much realism and micromanagement one wants. But personally, I find a discovery or loot-hauling trip always more interesting than doing my dirty laundry.

2. Using bandages (and possibly herbs) to treat sprained limbs seems a reasonable addition, but before such an addition I would prefer - as some others have commented here - to see the sprains reworked in general. I have often remarked on these forums that I consider the sprain to be too easily healed in the current game. If I get a sprain, even on Interloper, I never think "damn, I'm in trouble now". I always think, "well, another sprain, it will be gone after the next nap". A sprain is nothing but a small nuisance in the game, while in a real survival situation it would be a very serious issue. Therefore, I would like to see sprains being a lot rarer (maybe only occurring under adverse conditions - when walking on a slope while exhausted, or when overburdened etc.), but at the same time a lot more difficult to deal with. For example, I would like to see the maximum weight carried drop to 50% once you have a sprained ankle. Plus limping should make you a lot slower. And pain killers - I like that suggestion by @Mroz4ka lot better than the poll suggestions - should only allow to use the sprained ankle as normal for a short period (to reach shelter in an emergency situation), but at a huge drawback - like risk of a fracture. And a fracture... that should be almost a death sentence.

So to sum it up - I am voting "no" to the poll suggestions. Not because they are bad, but because in my eyes other issues should have higher priority.

I would like to add another point: A long time ago, I would enjoy searching a medical cabinet and finding a bandage. The bandage meant I could fight one more wolf (at the time each survived wolf fight resulted in one blood loss, requiring exactly one bandage), which in turn meant some 4 kg of wolf meat and therefore a fixed amount of further days I could survive (at the time the game really worked like that). In today's game, finding a bandage means nothing, as there is cloth everywhere and you can make bandages aplenty at any time. I would like to get that feeling back that finding certain items is meaningful. Making bandages from cloth should therefore be made more difficult, maybe we should really have two types of bandages: an "unclean" bandage (made from cloth, which might give you an infection if used on an open wound), and a "clean" bandage (found in medical cabinets or first aid kits).

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