Snow Shelter Feedback & Maintenance Suggestions

[Scyzara]

I just wanted to give some feedback about the snow shelter mechanics (also in regard to Resolute Outfitter and Forelorn Muskeg) and what I personally like / dislike about them. Everyone is welcome to comment on my thoughts and/or add their own suggestions, of course.  

First of all I would like to point out that I've always (primarily) seen snow shelters as an option to add some kind of a warming-up staging post to a location where it makes sense from a strategic point of view, e.g. the trail leading from PV to the mountaineer's hut. Having a snow shelter in the middle of this route is pretty nice as it allows you to make the trip without any condition loss due to freezing on Interloper. Forelorn Muskeg also has plenty of possible spots where such staging posts might be really nice to have.

In other words I don't build snow shelters spontaneously as a reaction to emergencies (e.g. when a blizzard hits or night begins to fall), but rather on purpose after some planning. Well, I pretty much have to plan it because I don't carry around so much cloth all the time.^^ 

I usually don't use snow shelters as permanent homes either. Usually I'll just stay a few hours in there to warm up or regain some fatigue. Occasionally I may also spend the night in a snow shelter, but I never live inside one for extended periods of time. Just to give you an idea where I'm coming from.

 

I'm actually pretty happy about most aspects of the snow shelter in regard to Interloper mode, also in the light of the new Resolute Outfitter update. The shelter neither feels overpowered, nor totally useless in my opinion. It allows you to warm up even under late-game Interloper conditions (with a full set of fur clothes and a bearskin bedroll, that is), but it's not a totally secure place to sleep through the night for 8 hours in a row because blizzards may still kill you even in the warmest gear possible. I'm very happy about this detailled balancing (also regarding the early/late game progression) and enjoy using snow shelters quite a lot in general.

What I do not enjoy at all are the current snow shelter deterioration mechanics. I know it's "realistic" that such a shelter deteriorates over time regardless of use (due to blizzards and the elements in general), but the current deterioration rate is no fun at all.

I've often had the problem that I found my PV-TWM staging post destroyed after living for some time (maybe 20 days or so) on TWM without going to PV.  I also found the premade snow shelter in FM in an almost destroyed state - and it deteriorated completely before I even had the chance to go and get some cloth to repair it. As it is, maintaining snow shelters really feels like a tedious and annoying chore to me - and the alternative is to let them decay and live with ugly, non-removeable shelter ruins afterwards. It's like choosing between a rock and a hard place.

 

As I've already written quite a lot, I'll just sum up my suggestions how the snow shelter maintenance might be made more of a fun activity in my opinion:

1. Let snow shelters deteriorate much slower over time (e.g. 100% - 0% condition in 100 days or so), but increase the deterioration rate considerably if the shelter is actually used.

2. Give us an indication of the current snow shelter condition. If we don't know how urgently repairs are needed, planning is difficult and the shelter might get destroyed accidentally.

3. Please let us deconstruct ruined snow shelters and possibly salvage a part of the materials. Even more importantly, deconstructing ruined shelters would give us the possibility to build a new shelter in the same location later on.

These three changes combined would make the current snow shelter mechanics much more enjoyable for me personally.^^

 

Thoughts (or annotations how you personally use snow shelters and how they could become more fun/balanced in your opinion) are very welcome.

 

[MarrowStone]

@Scyzara, Great topic! 

Personally I never use snow shelters; I never carry that much cloth on me and you're right, repairing one constantly is quite a chore. 

The deterioration rate needs changed considerably:

It definitely needs to deteriorate slower

Scyzara's model of decay would fit better in the game and make them a more viable option.

This longer shelf life can be traded off by perhaps adding a mechanic where the entrance has to be cleared out again due to snow drifting in, even when you sleep in it. 

[AZHockeyNut]

I don't understand the whole cloth being required in them. part of the game I guess but I can recall making snow forts or digging into the side of snow backs and making hiding places. can't do it with fresh powder but given the wetness and the amount of blizzards, it would seem that you could dig a snow cave out in a good many places or build a wind break wall.  neither of which is designed to last more than a few days but, given the situation our character is in would you try to light a fire in a windy area or pile up a bunch of snow and form a bit of a wind break to increase the likelihood you get a fire going?

as for the shelters, I have never used one for long term trips, not a bad idea, however, given they require cloth, and degrade quickly, then making one for this purpose seems nearly worthless unless you are nomadic or using it as a staging point in a big move. I don't bother with interloper myself, I find it pointless to use the weather as the main problem and a cheap way to try to make the game harder. The RNG seems to like to give me the finger all the time in stalker anyhow. I absolutely love blizzards every other day or sooner in stalker.....sarcasm and all.

[SteelFire]

Great topic. I agree with all the points that need adjusting.

Point 3 is a definite need. Having to stare at a ruined shelter every time I walk past it and knowing that's completely wasted, unusable space is frustrating. I don't even care if I get any usable materials back once it's down to a ruined state, but I certainly should be able to tear it down and regain that space for future use.

[Riverotter]

longer lasting snow shealters

[Ruruwawa]

Great topic.  I really like your #1 -- it rewards planning and exploration while retaining the tradeoffs for actually using a snow shelter.

For #3, I'd prefer both options: deconstruct or repair.  Basically make the lowest possible condition not "ruined" but something just above it. This actually could be easiest to implement too, since deconstruct / repair are already options on low condition, but not ruined, shelters.

[L²]

I know that this post is a bit dated, however I want to lend my voice to this thread as well.

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1. Let snow shelters deteriorate much slower over time (e.g. 100% - 0% condition in 100 days or so), but increase the deterioration rate considerably if the shelter is actually used.

 I have to completely agree with this point! I believe that the current rate of deterioration with the current snow shelter mechanics is such that it makes it very difficult to be able to keep a snow shelter functional for any kind of time. I do agree that there needs to be a rate of deterioration, but perhaps not as rapid as it currently functions.

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2. Give us an indication of the current snow shelter condition. If we don't know how urgently repairs are needed, planning is difficult and the shelter might get destroyed accidentally.

 You know I  really hadn't thought about it, but the snow shelter is about the only thing in the game that we don't have a percentage type indicator of its current condition. Clothing we have it, tools and implements we have it, food we have it…it seems to me, unless I'm forgetting something, that shelters are the lone craftable item  without some kind of condition representation. So I think this would be a great idea to add if it all possible. 

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3. Please let us deconstruct ruined snow shelters and possibly salvage a part of the materials. Even more importantly, deconstructing ruined shelters would give us the possibility to build a new shelter in the same location later on.

 Man, if this guy was a preacher I'd be the choir stand behind shouting amen! The need for the ability to deconstruct ruined shelters is so paramount that it is hard to even describe how much I'm behind this point.  This is especially true when you consider situations where you might be building a snow shelter in a location where there is only one feasible/usable place to do it.  So when I build a shelter in a primo location and for some reason I am away for a period of time significant enough to allow that shelter to degrade to a ruin state, I'm just screwed.  Thinking about the mechanics of it, sure if the shelter is ruined and you dismantle, it I can fully understand that would you get back much less of the materials than you might if you dismantle it under a currently usable state. I think that's acceptable and a no-brainer. But to make it to where you can't even dismantle it at all? Talk about immersion breaking. 

My 2¢/£/€/¥/₽/₩

[Shane Retter]

I've just started trying out a new 'self made' challenge that means I can only ever use snow shelters .... no buildings, or even caves to live in. Now I'm completely reliant on them, I've noticed a lot of the same frustrations .... mainly, not being able to remove ruined shelters. I spend a good amount of time getting my shelters placed just right [can access fireplace from inside, and fire is placed so it's always out of any wind, etc], but I've been caught out at distant hunting camps for longer than I intended, and returned to find my premium shelter spot is now occupied by a ruined shelter that I can't do anything with, and have to hump my firewood, meat quarters, and other gathered items for miles to find another suitable location ..... and this can take countless days depending on my condition after being away, and how much stuff I've gathered and stock piled before that point. Being able to remove, or even better 'rebuild' ruined shelters would be a great feature.

Also, I'd love to have it so you cannot place a fire in any place that will make entering the shelter bug out [being inside, but seeming to be stuck on top, and having to quit game to get out]. I spend ages trying to get fires placed, as I put down the shelter, save by resting, then start placing fires, and reloading each time it bugs out the entrance, until I finally have a fire I can use from inside, and the shelter working as intended.

So, in short .... as someone who uses these every single day and night, I'm fully in favor of giving our beloved snow shelter some further attention.

[belthize]

I've had to use snow shelters extensively in my current interloper game, day 64 and still no bed roll and rather cruddy clothes (+17) so the only way to deal with cabin fever is the occasional shelter.   Big +1 to the ability to removed destroyed shelters.  I had to move on from one location because the only decent place to put a shelter is occupied by a ruined one.   I also second the wish that they wouldn't decay quite so quickly, 1/2 to 1/4 of what it is now seems about right.  At 1/4 of the current rate then it would disappear after a game month.

Not sure if it's possible but I also wish a bit could be done to make placement not quite so finicky. 

[cullam]

Personally, I'd love to see them made from hides. Using a renewable resource would make them a far more plausible option, not to mention giving something to do with the hides that stack up faster than repairs are usually needed. It would also probably be more realistic, as the hides should be a little tougher, larger, and more water proof than hunks of cloth. 

[Prestermatt]

3 hours ago, cullam said:

Personally, I'd love to see them made from hides. Using a renewable resource would make them a far more plausible option, not to mention giving something to do with the hides that stack up faster than repairs are usually needed. It would also probably be more realistic, as the hides should be a little tougher, larger, and more water proof than hunks of cloth. 

That's a great idea.  The hide shelter could add (a little) more warmth and have (a little) more durability, at the cost of the fact that you have to have hides cured in order to make one.