ernestww

The .303

17 posts in this topic

It's been a year since I suggested it so I will risk it one more time..:)

The classic Lee-Enfield rifle,  it's very appropriate that it be the choice in this milieu.

The Lee-Enfield can only hold 10 rounds if it has a magazine.  The magazine extends out of receiver just forward of the trigger.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee%E2%80%93Enfield#/media/File:Lee-Enfield_No_4_Mk_I_(1943)_-_AM.032027.jpg

You could make the magazine an item to be found in the game, with random amounts of ammunition.

 

wm_8423996.jpg

 Such a graphic tweak would complete the rifle.   

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Games rifle is alredy based on Lee-Enfield, what would be the point to add another one ? Name is generic probably to avoid copyright mess.

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36 minutes ago, Dirmagnos said:

Games rifle is alredy based on Lee-Enfield, what would be the point to add another one ? Name is generic probably to avoid copyright mess.

While I agree on you that the change is unnecessary, it's got no grounds in copyright law. According to US copyright law, copyright lapses if the work exceeds 120 years since its original release (1895), therefore the classic lee-enfield is public domain. If we apply Canadian copyright law, which largely covers intellectual property, but can still be applied in this case, we see that the time for copyright lapse is 50 years after the author's/designer's death. Seeing as James Paris Lee, the original designer of the lee-enfield, died in 1904, copyright lapse in 1954. 

But this is me being intentionally pedantic.

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Personally, and this is just my opinion, I like the rifle design as it is - not that I look at it for long anyway. I do see the point of basing the rifle on real-world models though.

@EternityTide correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't TLD have to follow the copyright laws of every country it's sold in? This wouldn't be a problem here in Germany, but I can imagine that some countries are less lenient.

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2 hours ago, Wastelander said:


@EternityTide correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't TLD have to follow the copyright laws of every country it's sold in? This wouldn't be a problem here in Germany, but I can imagine that some countries are less lenient.

As far as I am aware, the copyright law in question is applied by the country of origin of the work (in this case, the rifle), and the country of origin of the publisher (in this case Canada). Otherwise there would be little point in having individual copyright law in each country when Mexico's "lifetime of author + 100 years" copyright lapse time would trump (pardon the pun) everyone else's copyright law.

Since the Lee-enfield originated in the UK, and Hinterland is a Canadian company, both countries have nigh identical copyright law (courtesy of the commonwealth), so it's basically the "50 years after author's death" rule in force here.

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It's not about copyright, it's about trademarks, which means that it really doesn't matter when the gun was invented or when did the "author" die. EA has said that they're not paying any license fees for using real guns, but better safe than sorry.  I'm not saying that it's the reason for generic names because as the game doesn't have many weapons generic names make more sense anyway.

Edited by FINDarkside
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Im lost here, but intrigued, and excuse my ignorance but why does adding a clip to the rifle make it a copyright infringement?

I would really like to see that rifle finally have a clip. I always thought that clip wasnt removable. 

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57 minutes ago, MarrowStone said:

Im lost here, but intrigued, and excuse my ignorance but why does adding a clip to the rifle make it a copyright infringement?

I would really like to see that rifle finally have a clip. I always thought that clip wasnt removable. 

Do you mean the magazine? A clip is the tool you use for loading a magazine or gun (you actually see a clip in the animation for reloading the rifle when there is more than 4 cartridges in your magazine). 

Edit: also, I now see @ernestww's original point after inspecting the rifle In-game. The magazine which is normally slung underneath the chamber, just in front of the trigger guard, is missing. This makes no sense as when you go to load the rifle with the aforementioned clip, one round would be locked in the chamber and the remainder would just fall out the bottom.

Edited by EternityTide
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It's actually a flaw I've only recently cottoned onto, but I haven't been using the rifle for ages, trying to get used to the bow, and going for the silent hunter achievement.

Hasn't stopped me from stockpiling in my latest playthrough:

20160913234301_1.thumb.jpg.e7a19be1a5c19

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Unlike today where we think about having a gun like an M-16 or AR-15 and you pull out the magazine (proper term for 'clip') when it's empty and shove in a fully loaded one...and if you are in the military or a prepper or just a gun enthusiast you might have a dozen magazines already loaded with ammo....that's not how things were viewed in WW 1 or even WW 2. 

Most Word War One era rifles had magazines, but they were permanently attached to the gun.  You'd load your 5 or 8 or 10 cartridges in from the top.  Then after shooting some, you'd push some more rounds in from the top.  Most had 'stripper clips' designed for them that allowed you to quickly load 5 rounds from the top.  This is actually already implemented in the game.  For most, there was also a latch on the bottom of the magazine that you'd flip and all the rounds would fall out.  This allowed quick unloading of the rifle...but slow reloading.  The removable magazine of the enfield was used to unload quickly then be able to reload quickly, but each rifle only had 1 magazine, and during a firefight you'd be reloading it with your stripper clips of 5 rounds from the top vs pulling out the entire magazine and sticking in a new one.

If a soldier lost his magazine he'd have to go get a new one just like if he lost any other bit of equipment.  Until that time he'd be only able to load a single round right in the chamber.  As the rifle graphic is missing the magazine, or faithful hunting rifle should hold only 1 round.  Could you limit the rifle to just 1 round and then randomly find magazines in the game and once you found the first one you get back the original 10 round capacity...and maybe find it with rounds in it?  To me that wouldn't add any enjoyment to the game, but I am sure a lot of my suggestions may not add enjoyment to some.  Still, my vote is to fix the rifle graphic and keep that rifle as it is (but expand to add a few more...)

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I don't know about the copyright laws surrounding the depiction of RL weapons in games, certainly there are many RL weapons depicted in innumerable games. They may consider it free advertising for their brand.  Lee Enfield and the Royal Small Arms Factory went defunct in 1988 so no more .303s for us, it is now an obsolete cartridge. I suspect in five or ten years, unless you reload your own they will be hard to find or very expensive. 

The main reason I flog the issue (or non-issue) is that I have one of these rifles in RL, a 1945 Jungle Carbine No 5 model Lee-Enfield-No.5-MkI-Sides.png.  There are better rifles available, but those that are into it will understand that there is something about these wood and steel military rifles. The Lee Enfield NO. 4 as depicted in the game (probably) was an evolved bit of engineering.  It was noted for its rapid rate of fire for a bolt action. As a game suggestion,  -  increase the possible rate of fire based on a skill metric(?!). 

The .303 is still a good deer hunting caliber (Talking about RL here), not too heavy, not too light.  Having the removable magazine is great, at least in my style of hunting that involves cruising the logging roads for many kilometers. Where I live the law states that you can't have a loaded firearm in a vehicle and the fact that I get in and out of the truck many times while hunting, being able to just drop out the magazine is nice.

I'll shut up now for another year. LOL

 

 

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I lied about shutting up..

Another game suggestion I had was to make the carbine a rare find.  It weighs 7 lbs instead of 9.

A trapper would favor the model.

Edited by ernestww
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Maybe it's a work in progress? It looks like there's a magazine housing, just no actual magazine - maybe the intention was to add the magazine and associated animations later down the road. But yeah, finding single rounds and / or boxes of ammunition means you'd be reloading from an open breech after each round you fired - that would take some nerve unless your first shot dropped your target! 

Does your reload time get shorter as your rifle skill improves? That might be a cool addition if it's not there already.

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On 9/11/2016 at 8:27 PM, ernestww said:

It's been a year since I suggested it so I will risk it one more time..:)

The classic Lee-Enfield rifle,  it's very appropriate that it be the choice in this milieu.

The Lee-Enfield can only hold 10 rounds if it has a magazine.  The magazine extends out of receiver just forward of the trigger.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee%E2%80%93Enfield#/media/File:Lee-Enfield_No_4_Mk_I_(1943)_-_AM.032027.jpg

You could make the magazine an item to be found in the game, with random amounts of ammunition.

 

wm_8423996.jpg

 Such a graphic tweak would complete the rifle.   

I see a promo pic with a rifle magazine!

 

slide-02-large.jpg

 

I wonder if all my whining influenced this? :) 

 

I'm looking forward to the pending updates!

 

I imagine Hinterland has a bit of a party planned for the team around Aug 1st?   Stacey's soda on draft, sardines and peanut butter?

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Posted (edited)

The new aiming interface is challenging (at least I think its new).  In my first serious run in Cartographer It took 30+ days to find a rifle.  I have put about 5 rounds through it so far and amazingly have killed two or three wolves.  Amazingly, as basically the muzzle scribes a slow circle while aiming that is probably 5 meters around at 50 yards LOL. (sorry for the mixed units)

Well I just found the Frontiersman book so maybe that will settle my aim a little. :) Also found 12 cartridges at the dam!  

Good times! 

Edited by ernestww
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