Where can you sleep outside without a bedroll?

[Tbone555]

5 minutes ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

True, but what about people who pass out while indoors? 

They wouldn't freeze to death  

They should awake 1 or 2 hours later with just enough energy to make it to bed ...say maybe 5% condition?

im not saying people can't pass out indoors but I'm saying this would stop people from flirting with exhaustion. i'm pretty guilty of that. need to get a long distance, exhaustion doesnt kill you particularly quick, so i just keep going. but if i could pass out outdoors? not a chance i'd be traveling exhausted.

[Wasteland Watcher]

20 hours ago, ChillPlayer said:

Hate to be the devils advocate again but if you spend a week inside a house knowing that your bedroll is destroyed and with the knowledge that you will contract cabin fewer, without any coffe nor stims you should have a very hard time to survive then. After all TLD - as any real survival situation - is in many aspects about preparation and failing to do so is one of the main causes of death.

So first mistake: don't let your bedroll decay completely, I had to learn this myself the hard way when bedrolls began to decay some updates ago. Fortunately there are bedrolls in many places and if you are not on your day 1000ish surviving with all cloths and bedrolls wasted already there's no reason why your bedroll should break down in the first place.

2nd mistake: If you harvested the blue bedroll you can pickup for cloths because you have a bear bedroll, that's another mistake due to short term solution seeking without having the long time effects in mind.

3rd mistake: staying inside the cabin for too long without doing anything about your predicament - which itself is caused by the players bad choice to sleep outside in unsafe territory with bears around. Instead he/she could've checked the notorious places that usually have a bedroll lying around or go hunt some bears for their skin and craft a new roll. If you are out of ammo and arrows this should've been allthemore reason to take particular care of your roll.

4th mistake: no coffe and no stims to overcome those 48 hours beside a fire somewhere outside.

So at least four severe mistakes of the hypothetical player in this scenario led to the predicament of this hypothetical situation and in my book the player should end his run and think about his mistakes, then start over and do it better next time. I mean for starters - other than in RL - you know that you will get cabin fewer and that there's no place outside you can sleep without a bedroll while having a fire going, excpetion might be Lookouts but if that's the case, I'd vote for fixing this

TL;DR: this situation could've been prevented by preparing yourself on many occasions, failure to do any preparation at all should lead to fading into the dark...

This is all good "common sense" advice for vets and I agree with it. 
But my situation does not correlate to your example.

First I start with the disclaimer/side note that I always leave bears alone except in the case where I needed the two pelts to make the bedroll when the sandbox started on ML over 180 days ago.

After living 67 days on CH I wanted to just pass through PV to get to Timberwolf Mountain.
I left CH with essentials only :
Fur clothes, bearskin bedroll, med-kit (antiseptic+5 bandages+6 painkillers+6 antibiotics), bow+5 arrows (though I prefer the rifle, bow is lighter), knife, hatchet, saw, magnifying glass+one box matches, 2 L water, 4 kg food (mostly energy bars & pork & beans), and two flares.

I've never explored PV, and so after entering from the CH Mine got lost and ended up making my way clockwise around the edge of the map avoiding all wolves along the way but checking all caves I'd come across (and there are quite a few!)  to see if they were the entrance to TWM.
After spending one night in a fishing hut on a pond I continued on and came across a particular cave and this one had a bear which immediately charged me.
Normally bears leave me alone and I leave them alone as well but this one was angry!

There was not even an opportunity to get the bow out. It was out for blood. 

This bear mauls me and brings my health from 100% to 8%, tears all my fur clothes to 25% or less, and destroys the bedroll ("ruined"). I turn inland to search for shelter. Luckily it's a sunny morning so I manage to come across a farmhouse before the weather goes bad and decide to make it a temporary base until I can repair my clothes and find another bedroll.
I never spend time indoors unless there's a blizzard outside. Maybe it's just my perception of it, but in PV it seems to blizzard a lot more than CH or ML.

I recall finding one bedroll in cave shortly after arriving in PV but left it because I had my bearskin bedroll at the time and it would have weighed me down.
I don't think it's smart to risk getting lost without a bedroll so I'm exploring the area every morning going 3 hours out from the farmhouse.  
If I don't find a bedroll by the time my fur clothes are repaired I'm planning on going back to the cave where the bear mauled me to shoot it for it's pelt to make a new bedroll.
Of course I'd risk spending too much time "indoors" when making the new bedroll so my plan is to spend no more and two hours per day making it (blizzard days will be the exception).

Note to Hinterland Studios: 
Normally I'd spend probably all day long and probably half the night working on something like making a bearskin bedroll every day until it was finished but the fear of coming down with cabin fever has altered my behavior to not spend more than two hours a day on any 'indoor' project.
If this is by design, it's working!  @Patrick Carlson

[Wasteland Watcher]

6 hours ago, Tbone555 said:

im not saying people can't pass out indoors but I'm saying this would stop people from flirting with exhaustion. i'm pretty guilty of that. need to get a long distance, exhaustion doesnt kill you particularly quick, so i just keep going. but if i could pass out outdoors? not a chance i'd be traveling exhausted.

Hmm I didn't know people flirt with exhaustion

My m.o. is to explore every day the weather allows until 3 hours daylight remaining (HDR) then return home. If I've got energy left at 2 HDR I'll begin sprinting to get home faster.
Anyhow the daily plan is to time it so my I'm both home at dusk yet 'exhausted' within an hour of arriving home. By that time I'm in bed with a full belly and thirst slated  
Then sleep until fully rested which usually has me waking with 12 HDR so every day has max potential sunlight

[Tbone555]

7 hours ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

Hmm I didn't know people flirt with exhaustion

My m.o. is to explore every day the weather allows until 3 hours daylight remaining (HDR) then return home. If I've got energy left at 2 HDR I'll begin sprinting to get home faster.
Anyhow the daily plan is to time it so my I'm both home at dusk yet 'exhausted' within an hour of arriving home. By that time I'm in bed with a full belly and thirst slated  
Then sleep until fully rested which usually has me waking with 12 HDR so every day has max potential sunlight

during my sandbox games, i usually play it safe using that exact strategy. though, when i have to travel long distances to other maps, or when im doing challenges, i REALLY push my exhaustion meter. thats why i think it would make sense to make people pass out for a couple hours at a time when fully exhausted. i suppose i SHOULD be thankful that i cant pass out with my playstyle.. buuuuut, my masochism triumphs over all other needs in this game xD

[ChillPlayer]

9 hours ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

This is all good "common sense" advice for vets and I agree with it. 
But my situation does not correlate to your example.

Well I think it does correlate perfectly

I think I know where you're coming from, but TLD is a game with a steep learning curve and learning is usually done by dying, as harsh as this may sound. When I began playing TLD it was said that you need to die at least 50 times until you are fit enough to endure longtime in Stalker and I still think that this is true. Sure back then there weren't so many guides and forum entries around detailing every dos and don'ts and if you read up on them, maybe dying 30 times will prepare yourself such that the mistakes you make won't be fatal anymore. But dying in TLD is part of the learning process and there's no shame in that as long as you learn your lesson and do it better next time. Try to liberate yourself from the thought that you need to do everything right and overcome everything the game throws at you as a novice player, especially if you haven't explorer all the maps yet and know where to get what.

I've pointed out some mistakes that led to this situation which I as a "vet" wouldn't do - because I did them before and I learned my piece. Believe me I died many hundred times in TLD and some deaths were really painful, where I was very well situated, had everything I need to go on for thousand of days and some stupid mistake ended my run on day 190. Just recently I had quite a good The Hunted Challenge run and made the stupid mistake of going to sleep with an infection. Part of the reason for this mistake was my assumption that I can sleep when I am sick (which you can't), in other words: lack of knowledge. I died, I learned what I did wrong and hopefully I won't repeat this mistake.

If you can change your mindset in this way, you will hopefully understand why I think that my previous post is the right answer to your situation

[cekivi]

As a person adverse to dying in any games I'm very pleased with myself for only dying four times

 

[ChillPlayer]

2 hours ago, cekivi said:

As a person adverse to dying in any games I'm very pleased with myself for only dying four times

 

You shouldn't, this means you missed a lot of chances to learn something

[cekivi]

31 minutes ago, ChillPlayer said:

You shouldn't, this means you missed a lot of chances to learn something

Oh I still learned how to pull myself out of a fire and somehow manage to keep going at less than 20% condition

[Wasteland Watcher]

7 hours ago, Tbone555 said:

during my sandbox games, i usually play it safe using that exact strategy. though, when i have to travel long distances to other maps, or when im doing challenges, i REALLY push my exhaustion meter. thats why i think it would make sense to make people pass out for a couple hours at a time when fully exhausted. i suppose i SHOULD be thankful that i cant pass out with my playstyle.. buuuuut, my masochism triumphs over all other needs in this game xD

In sandboxes even when I travel between maps I still make camp when dusk hits and don't push myself past exhaustion. i just don't think the risk is worth it.
It's cool that pushing the exhaustion envelope works for you though b

6 hours ago, ChillPlayer said:

Well I think it does correlate perfectly

I think I know where you're coming from, but TLD is a game with a steep learning curve and learning is usually done by dying, as harsh as this may sound. When I began playing TLD it was said that you need to die at least 50 times until you are fit enough to endure longtime in Stalker and I still think that this is true. Sure back then there weren't so many guides and forum entries around detailing every dos and don'ts and if you read up on them, maybe dying 30 times will prepare yourself such that the mistakes you make won't be fatal anymore. But dying in TLD is part of the learning process and there's no shame in that as long as you learn your lesson and do it better next time. Try to liberate yourself from the thought that you need to do everything right and overcome everything the game throws at you as a novice player, especially if you haven't explorer all the maps yet and know where to get what.

I've pointed out some mistakes that led to this situation which I as a "vet" wouldn't do - because I did them before and I learned my piece. Believe me I died many hundred times in TLD and some deaths were really painful, where I was very well situated, had everything I need to go on for thousand of days and some stupid mistake ended my run on day 190. Just recently I had quite a good The Hunted Challenge run and made the stupid mistake of going to sleep with an infection. Part of the reason for this mistake was my assumption that I can sleep when I am sick (which you can't), in other words: lack of knowledge. I died, I learned what I did wrong and hopefully I won't repeat this mistake.

If you can change your mindset in this way, you will hopefully understand why I think that my previous post is the right answer to your situation

It only affects my situation because of the new cabin fever mechanic but I've worked around it.

It turns out the cave of that evil bastard bear was directly south of the farmhouse and only about a 2 hour walk.
Since my fur clothes are mostly repaired I took the rusty hunting rife +5 bullets I found in the farmhouse to the cave of the bear that mauled me took aim and shot it right in the head, killing it. And then the rifle jammed

I've got its pelt to make the replacement bearskin bedroll and will work on that one or two hours a day then continue on towards Timberwolf Mountain.

I understand TLD has a fairly steep learning curve but this being my fifth "real" sandbox game I'm pretty happy to report that two days after I killed that evil bastard bear I hit day 200  
By "real sandbox" I mean that it's a sandbox where I try to make Will MacKenzie live "forever." 

I very much understand the value of making mistakes to gain knowledge but I do that in experimental sandboxes (done about 10 of those) where right after the sandbox started I immediately jump off cliffs, get infected on purpose, etc, to see what the effects were and also what would happen if these are left untreated.  This gives me the knowledge to play my "real" sandbox better.
So in actuality if you count those, I've died about 15 times. I always play Voyageur.
Some people may think 'experimental' sandboxes are cheating but I think we were all given 5 sandboxes so we could safely experiment.

Anyhow, per my original question when I started this topic, the whole goal of it was to find out if there's anywhere "outdoors" that has a bed.
It's looking more and more like the short answer is "no."
 

4 hours ago, cekivi said:

As a person adverse to dying in any games I'm very pleased with myself for only dying four times

 

Very cool   I wish I could say that!
Including my experimental sandboxes I'd say I've died around 10 times and 'real' sandboxes I've died four times (& one other game got erased during a power outage back before we had Steam Cloud saves).
 

1 hour ago, cekivi said:

Oh I still learned how to pull myself out of a fire and somehow manage to keep going at less than 20% condition

The closest I've gotten to this was once when I made the mistake (2nd or 3rd sandbox) of getting so exhausted my condition dropped to around 5% or so. Vision went completely blurry and I could not see anything even though it was middle of the day.
Since I was right outside Cabin Office I managed to blunder my way to the door and then "feel" my way to a bed. By the time I got to the bed the "heartbeat" sound was going. I really thought it was going to be the end! But I lived through that one.
Bleeding out got me a few days later

[cekivi]

In my case I was mauled by a bear and had to sprint from the river at the far end of the farmhouse's field while effectively naked to the farmhouse. I made it with 5-10% condition left. That was when bears were first introduced and I didn't know how the worked yet

[Wasteland Watcher]

1 minute ago, cekivi said:

In my case I was mauled by a bear and had to sprint from the river at the far end of the farmhouse's field while effectively naked to the farmhouse. I made it with 5-10% condition left. That was when bears were first introduced and I didn't know how the worked yet

Naked! That's pretty much how I felt after the evil bastard got me. All my fur clothes were around 20% or so condition and I had no idea where I was so I was stopping every so often to make campfires to warm up...at about 10% condition.  That I found the farmhouse was a stroke of luck!

By the way, since the last update do bears seem more aggressive to you?  They do to me. Normally when I keep my distance they ignore me but that one around the farmhouse also seemed like it wanted to attack so I ran indoors and took an hour nap.
Or...is the bear that goes by the farmhouse the same one that lives in the cave by the river directly south of the farmhouse?

[cekivi]

I'm assuming it's the one in the cave? I've only been trying the challenges since the update launched so I don't know how much the main game changed.

[Patrick Carlson]

20 hours ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

Note to Hinterland Studios: 
Normally I'd spend probably all day long and probably half the night working on something like making a bearskin bedroll every day until it was finished but the fear of coming down with cabin fever has altered my behavior to not spend more than two hours a day on any 'indoor' project.
If this is by design, it's working!  @Patrick Carlson

Nice to hear how you all have responded to the changes. It's definitely helpful to get such detailed feedback. Keep it coming!

[Wasteland Watcher]

1 hour ago, Patrick Carlson said:

Nice to hear how you all have responded to the changes. It's definitely helpful to get such detailed feedback. Keep it coming!

I'll definitely continue providing feedback with the goal of all of it being constructive

@Patrick Carlson I was hoping you could verify one detail for me please:  is being in a car considered being indoors? 

I'm trying to find out if there are any "outdoor" locations that have a bed to sleep in (no bedroll at the moment, destroyed during a bear mauling).

[cowboymrh]

On 5/18/2016 at 3:17 PM, Wasteland Watcher said:

Anyhow, per my original question when I started this topic, the whole goal of it was to find out if there's anywhere "outdoors" that has a bed.
It's looking more and more like the short answer is "no."

The Mountaineers Hut at Timberwolf Mountain is considered "outdoors" and has a bed!        And a workbench!!

[Wasteland Watcher]

55 minutes ago, cowboymrh said:

The Mountaineers Hut at Timberwolf Mountain is considered "outdoors" and has a bed!        And a workbench!!

Really?!

On these forums somewhere I read that the Mountaineer's Hut is only considered 'outdoors' for food storage purposes only and that you can get cabin fever there. 

[Scyzara]

3 hours ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

Really?!

On these forums somewhere I read that the Mountaineer's Hut is only considered 'outdoors' for food storage purposes only and that you can get cabin fever there. 

In V. 332, you can indeed get cabin fever inside the mountaineer's hut. It also counts as being "indoors" regarding the journal statistics. Just the decay rates (both inside the hatch and on shelves/the floor) are like outdoors. 

And to answer your other question: No, cars do not count as indoors. You can sleep inside them while you have cabin fever. 

[Wasteland Watcher]

19 hours ago, Scyzara said:

In V. 332, you can indeed get cabin fever inside the mountaineer's hut. It also counts as being "indoors" regarding the journal statistics. Just the decay rates (both inside the hatch and on shelves/the floor) are like outdoors. 

And to answer your other question: No, cars do not count as indoors. You can sleep inside them while you have cabin fever. 

Scyzara, thank you for verifying that being inside cars are 'outdoors.' 

I'm put at ease to know that even if I was to come down with Cabin Fever prior my bearskin bedroll being finished that I could at least rest in a car if needed to until it passed.That being said, I'd prefer not to catch it and will stick to my plan of only working on the bedroll two hours per day.

You have answered the main question of this post!
If you were in the Japan Yokohama area I'd buy you all the pints of ale or cider you'd want at the local pub!

[Scyzara]

You're welcome. 

[Nicholai]

First thing, you also get cabin fever in lookouts. But if you light the stove inside, it warms outside also (not realistic but useful) so you can place your bedroll outside and sleep safely.

Second thing, people mustn't die from exhaustion; my idea. This may pave the way of sleeping without bedroll. Simply you are knocked down if your condition is below some % and you're exhausted. before you wake, you get a little sleep but no condition or something like that. you may also freeze to death if this occurs in subzero. this is more realistic imo.

[Scyzara]

The "problem" has been completely solved with the introduction of the snow shelter, anyway.

You can now build a shelter almost everywhere, don't need a bedroll to sleep inside and it's always -5°C. So even in starting clothes, you probably won't freeze in there (because of the +3°C default bonus while sleeping). 

[Berniyh]

On 23/05/2016 at 6:06 AM, Wasteland Watcher said:

Really?!

On these forums somewhere I read that the Mountaineer's Hut is only considered 'outdoors' for food storage purposes only and that you can get cabin fever there. 

Yes, you can get cabin fever, because I just got that.

Not too worried though, I'll just sleep through the day (usually not that cold).

More annoyed that I can't pass time …

[SureArrow]

Hi all.  I'm new here and what prompted me to sign-up and write this was both how great this simulation is and how it could get all screwed-up in later developments, if one its strongest virtues is lost.  Survival reality.

I'm here as just a guy who see's possibly the best survival game ever made (so far), and the main reason is, is that of being very close to reality.  If this one feature is lost later on in the final retail version, then what a horrible shame it would be.  What a loss.  We all know any competitor could just swoop-in and take the lead and the tiny market niche - and then bye-bye "The Long Dark".  

As a gamer from as far back as the mid-eighties (yes, I'm that old, Amiga 500 days), I can spot winners easily- at least for my taste.  I game in my spare time, for I spend most of my life exploring the real world.  Having served in the U.S. Army and hiked in the Gobi desert, northern Canada, India, Mexico and northern China, I can say I've had a little experience on this stuff.  But who the hell am I to tell you? 

That's why I've used other's research on sleep deprivation and cabin fever below. 

To me (IMHO), both are totally over played in this game, and at the expense of real life simulation.  Using non-real life elements just to stir game play actually diminishes game play, because it starts to show itself as just a game and not something you can get lost in.   

One should be able to sleep anywhere, even standing up ( I have many times).  Yes, if you fall asleep in the open cold, then you could die from freezing to death, but not sleep deprivation.  Keep them separate. 

In a way, sleep deprivation is like holding your breath.  You can hold your breath until you pass out, then you'll breath again.  While you're passed out, your body automatically breathes again without your permission.  To most humans, this is the same with forced staying awake and falling asleep.  Most people can't stay awake more than three days until their body and brain shut down into an auto-sleep.  You do NOT die! 

In all my years of experience and from those around me, nobody has come close to dying from lack of sleep - no one!  This is after four days without sleep at all, several times in my life.  Once in college and once in the Army.  I've known people that have gone five days without sleep, while on meth.  It's a joke that you die - and without a bed roll - come on man!  This is idiotic!  Now, there are some cases where people have gone stupid lengths of time and died, but not two, three or four days. 

Huffington Post article,  " Man Dies After Going 11 Days Without Sleep."  Then there's this from Wikipedia on how the body deals with sleep deprivation:  Microsleeps occur when a person has a significant sleep deprivation. Microsleeps usually last for a few seconds and happen most frequently when a person is trying to stay awake when he or she is feeling sleepy.  The person usually falls into microsleep while doing a monotonous task like driving, reading a book, or staring at a computer.  Microsleeps are similar to blackouts and a person experiencing them is not consciously aware that they are occurring.

One final though that's related to this post, and it's from Wikipedia as well:  "Cabin fever is an idiomatic term for a claustrophobic reaction that takes place when a person or group ends up in an isolated or solitary location, or stuck indoors in confined quarters for an extended period. Cabin fever describes the extreme irritability and restlessness a person may feel in these situations  Cabin fever is also associated with boredom.

A person may experience cabin fever in a situation such as being in a simple country vacation cottage. When experiencing cabin fever, a person may tend to sleep, to have a distrust of anyone they are with or to have an urge to go outside even in the rain, snow, dark or hail. The phrase is also used humorously to indicate simple boredom from being home alone."

There are few humans in recorded history that have ever died from cabin fever.  Honestly, this is grasping at straws in the game.  There's got to be more realistic, creative ways to add playability, even if its still in the alpha phase.

If the developers are looking for game components to add more playability to their simulation, than PLEASE, not at the expense of near reality.  That's the one thing you need to keep here and own with this game.  ...and yes, I'm well aware that this game is still in the alpha phase, and what alphas means.  I'm just throwing throwing in my two cents early on in the hopes it's gets corrected.

- An ardent supporter of TLD.

 

[cekivi]

Welcome to the forums @SureArrow!

Well, the two areas you identified frequently pop up on the game's feedback page. Both are concerns but cabin fever at least originated to fix an exploit in the earlier builds of the game. Whether or not it will be further changed remains to be seen.