SteveP

Horses [POLL]

Horses  

85 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you want a horse in the game?

    • Yes
      26
    • No
      38
    • Unsure
      16
    • Don't care
      0
  2. 2. Should we have to rope the horse to use it? Would these be wild or feral horses?

    • Yes
      27
    • No
      14
    • Undecided
      39
  3. 3. Should we have to feed and water the horse(s)?

    • Yes but food is scarce and only available in certain places
      29
    • No, the horse can forage especially if you turn it loose after you use it
      13
    • Yes but horse feed is available on all the maps
      10
    • Undecided
      28


36 posts in this topic

I was just thinking about how we would interact with a horse. My boy thinks you will have to feed it, which could be possible in the barn at Pleasant Valley but I'm wondering if these might be wild horses that you have to sneak up on and toss a rope on them, then maybe train them or maybe just slap a saddle or a pack on them and use them right away and do without all the feeding etc. Ideally you would have some sort of horse drawn sledge to fetch hay bales back to the barn and keep your horse in the barn where it will be safe from the bear and wolves. I can definitely see the wolves being a threat to the horse. But if a wolf decides to stalk you on horseback, is your horse going to throw you off? or will it buck if you shoot the rifle at the wolf? or maybe you can shoot the bow and arrow from horseback. Go native man!!

I could only add three questions to the poll but there are obviously a lot more choices especially about wolf behaviour. Ok, what are your thoughts on how horses and wolves would work? Interesting eh?  9_9

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I would actually rather like to have donkeys implemented if the Devs want to give us the possibility to transport heavy weight. Unlike horses, donkeys don't panic and run away at the sight of predators (coyotes, dogs, wolves and in some cases even mountain lions).

Instead, they face them screaming loudly, effectively discouraging attacks and chasing the predators away. Some sheperds, e.g. in Italy or France keep a few donkeys in their herd who protect all the sheep or goats from wild dog and wolf attacks. Works pretty well as far as I know.

If you asked me how I personally assess the odds for donkeys and horses to survive in a TLD-like situation, I'd definitely bet my money on the donkeys. However, we shouldn't forget that horses are probably just planed for the spring version of TLD and we don't know yet how many and which predators we'll have to face there.

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I don't know about wild/feral horses. Breaking in a horse isn't a quick process. I'd say it would make more sense to find an old nag as a workhorse around PV, or perhaps a trader. I don't know what it could eat outside of the hay bales at PV - I'd agree that keeping it in the barn away from the cold and predators makes sense. But you couldn't take it too far in that instance. Finding food and appropriate shelter makes me think it would have to be pretty confined.

But I think it could open up some opportunities for carrying particularly heavy equipment around. I can't think of what you'd want to lug around in that area, particularly, but any stuff you can't reasonably carry in your pack.

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One of the things you could transport with your horse would be horse feed. There's probably a bunch of oats or grain in the silo at Pleasant Valley. You could probably bring enough hay for one or two day trip but with oats, you could bring enough feed for a week or more. Besides, Oatmeal is one of my favourite breakfasts. :| Well let's just say it's healthy and palatable if you add plenty of home made jam and bran for fiber.

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If we are going to have horses in the game I would prefer things be as simple as possible. Horses on Great Bear Island ought to be already domesticated. So if a horse sees you he would come up to you expecting something good to eat. I wouldn't include feeding requirements in the game as horses can live off the land quite easily like deer. But I would definitely include the possibility of giving a horse treats (granola bars come to mind). Doing so would cause the horse to hang around your camp/base willingly, and he would come if you call or whistle. I wouldn't confine the horse either, just made sure there was a place for him out of the wind. Horses do best if allowed loose to find their own shelter. The way the game maps are set up, he wouldn't have to go far. 

The only problem is bringing such a horse through the connecting mines. For that reason I would limit the availability of a horse to the PV map, as that is the most logical place to find a loose horse. 

Personally I prefer mules. Like donkeys they have a stronger instinct for self preservation and are less likely to blindly follow you into dangerous situations for a measly granola bar . . .

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The movie Jeremiah Johnson is about surviving in the cold winter mountains, just like The Long Dark. Horses are used in this movie.

Horses are now part of the roadmap. If it does make its way into the game, it would/could add a fresh new elements to gameplay. 

- horses can get spooked by Cougars or wolves and buck you off. But, horses have a tendency to return home, so you might find your horse at your camp. Though you will be walking.

- horses can carry gear for you to lighten the weight on your backpack.

- horses need to eat, drink, and rest too. Not to mention kept warm during freezing temperatures. But horses know how to survive on their own if they need to. But, in order for them to do this, they can't be locked in a barn or fenced off area.

- horses can't climb up or down steep terrain, so safe paths will need to be taken.

- you could find yourself waking up in the middle of the night and running out to save your horse from a wolf pack.

- crafting saddle, reins, horse shoes, etc, will be a cool feature.

- would you put a bullet in your horse's head to escape a hungry grizzly? I think I would. The horse would ditch me if it gets the or a chance.

Wherher or not a horse would buck you after shooting the rifle from horseback would depend on the horse and his/her current mental state... Calm/nervous, etc

Edited by djb204
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Why not?

I always wished i could take more with me without exhaustion. A horse could be great for transportation all kinds of stuff. Why should i carry wood myself when collecting it in the forest, if had a horse for transportation? Or i could sit on it and take a ride on it. I don't know what the exact plans of Hinterland are for adding a horse, but i can imagine many great things with it.

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My main problem with horses is how they'd conflict with the narrative. With the wolves having overrun all the maps and the humans gone any horses outside would be dinner and horses inside would starve. Maybe to make narrative sense you get your horse from an NPC?

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11 minutes ago, cekivi said:

My main problem with horses is how they'd conflict with the narrative. With the wolves having overrun all the maps and the humans gone any horses outside would be dinner and horses inside would starve. Maybe to make narrative sense you get your horse from an NPC?

Yes, but so are NPCs and other animals in the game (wolf dinner), no? And it could add a new challange: suddenly you do not have to just defend yourself but your horse, too. I am really interested in how Hinterland is going to add horses. I always found it a little strange, that there is a really big farm at Pleasant Valley, but no animals you would expect to be there: cows, horses, sheep: at least you should find some dead animals, for me it is a little bit strange, that all farm animals should have disappeared as reason of the desaster.

Edited by aurora
typo
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Well, I hate to break it to you @aurora but I think all of the animals went to a big farm upstate. Mr. and Mrs. Wolf drove them there for a picnic and they're taking their time getting back :silly:

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1 minute ago, cekivi said:

Well, I hate to break it to you @aurora but I think all of the animals went to a big farm upstate. Mr. and Mrs. Wolf drove them there for a picnic and they're taking their time getting back :silly:

:D

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9 hours ago, cekivi said:

Well, I hate to break it to you @aurora but I think all of the animals went to a big farm upstate. Mr. and Mrs. Wolf drove them there for a picnic and they're taking their time getting back :silly:

They went to Belize. o.O

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14 hours ago, hauteecolerider said:

I wouldn't include feeding requirements in the game as horses can live off the land quite easily like deer

Early in evolution of horses, they tended to be browsers but became grazers later. A starving horse will however eat almost anything. If there is grass, I believe they can paw it up. Deer tend to eat small bushes. Someone more versed in horses might comment upon their ability to survive in winter without graze (grass).

Evolution of Horses

Horses, Snow and Grazing in Winter in Snowy Alberta

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19 hours ago, djb204 said:

But horses know how to survive on their own if they need to. But, in order for them to do this, they can't be locked in a barn or fenced off area.

My point exactly.

19 hours ago, cekivi said:

My main problem with horses is how they'd conflict with the narrative. With the wolves having overrun all the maps and the humans gone any horses outside would be dinner and hores inside would starve. Maybe to make narrative sense you get your horse from an NPC?

Horses locked inside would either break out or starve. I'd put my money on them breaking out. As for dinner, it's not easy for wolves to bring down horses. Typically they can only do so in packs, because horses have very hard hooves that can cause serious damage. Also, horses outrun wolves on open ground. Wolves generally have a very healthy respect for horses.

10 hours ago, SteveP said:

Early in evolution of horses, they tended to be browsers but became grazers later. A starving horse will however eat almost anything. If there is grass, I believe they can paw it up. Deer tend to eat small bushes. Someone more versed in horses might comment upon their ability to survive in winter without graze (grass).

Evolution of Horses

Horses, Snow and Grazing in Winter in Snowy Alberta

The modern Equus caballus originated on the Siberian steppes, so believe me, they are very well cold-adapted. More so than warm weather. As everyone who has ever groomed horses in the spring can attest, they grow tremendously thick winter coats - thicker than huskies! Their manes, tails and forelocks are not just for pretty, either. They were designed as windbreaks for the head, neck/chest and for the butt. Their legs, much like deer, are developed for maximal heat conservation - the structure of the lower leg is nature's own heat exchanger. 

I would think that horses are very adaptable to survival with or without humans, but they need to be loose to make their own decisions. That said, a horse can be extremely loyal to a particular human, and will not abandon said human to the wolves. Yes, they will startle and run off, but they do not deliberately buck you off! My own mare has spooked to large animals in the woods while I was riding her, but she never bucked me off to get rid of me. It was easier to just bolt and run. The only time a horse bucks is when they feel something unexpected on their backs or rumps, such as a cougar dropping from above. My same mare went bucking around a stall when a barn cat dropped onto her back from the hayloft above. 

Generally horses don't fear wolves - they tend to stand their ground and strike out with their feet. It's cougars they truly fear. And cougar is on the road map . . .

All in all, it's going to be interesting . . .

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I would guess that the horses will tie in with fast travel. Click on the horse, select previously visited area and presto.

There is no way you could ride a horse from one zone to the next, the transition areas would not allow it. So if it's just for making a quick trip to the ice hut, check traps or search for bunkers, it is neither game making or breaking. I voted yes because looking after it would give another chore.

Horses definitely fear wolves. I agree though, they will stand and successfully defend themselves from a (1) wolf, but a horse would not last and hour on Coastal Highway without human protection.

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I personally dread the appearance of horses in TLD. I feel the same way about fast travel in general, to be honest.

Faster transportation always seems to make a world (even our own) seem smaller. I feel like the vast, daunting landscape of Great Bear would be diminished quite a bit by allowing you to traverse it faster than walking/running. Right now, trips to other zones are things I plan for several days or more in advance: I watch the weather, I try and burn down my meat supply by getting some calorie-intensive chores done, I go over my list of travel necessities several times, I make sure my clothes are in good shape, and I plan my sleep so I can head out with the dawn.

Even the best-prepared trip carries a measure of risk with it: sometimes wolves and bears just aren't where you think they are. Sometimes you get a freak blizzard on the other side of the transition zone that lasts for days. Sometimes you sprain your wrist right as you hear the predators growling... and I think that risk is one of the things that makes the game great. The only thing I see a horse doing for me is taking away moments of the gameplay and immersion that I think TLD does so well.

My 2c.

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I don't know about horses.  While my pony is awesome in Skyrim, I don't think it fits the post apocalyptic scenario.  A horse is most likely to be eaten by the most dangerous predator - humans.  In a world where you are so desperately hungry scrounging that you'll eat dog food, a horse is more valuable as food.  And if you don't carve it up yourself, other human survivors would.  If for some reason you did not eat it yourself, you would be constantly guarding it from wolf and man.

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13 hours ago, Vhalkyrie said:

I don't know about horses.  While my pony is awesome in Skyrim, I don't think it fits the post apocalyptic scenario.  A horse is most likely to be eaten by the most dangerous predator - humans.  In a world where you are so desperately hungry scrounging that you'll eat dog food, a horse is more valuable as food.  And if you don't carve it up yourself, other human survivors would.  If for some reason you did not eat it yourself, you would be constantly guarding it from wolf and man.

Pretty much this.

I love horses IRL. That said, I find horses in most games underwhelming. Certain characters in Oblivion and Skyrim just couldn't not have a horse, but other characters were - meh.

The idea of horses in TLD is, for me, just that - meh.

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On 2016-04-12 at 10:03 AM, hauteecolerider said:

it's not easy for wolves to bring down horses. Typically they can only do so in packs, because horses have very hard hooves that can cause serious damage. Also, horses outrun wolves on open ground. Wolves generally have a very healthy respect for horses.

I think one's attitude toward horses depends upon one's experiences. If you've spent any time around them in real life, you get an appreciation for their ability and personality. Y'all have been complaining about loneliness and wanting a companion; well here it is, the horse!

There are several advantages of a horse:

  1.  They can defend you against the wolves
  2.  They have sensitive hearing and sense of smell and can warn you of animals in the vicinity which we humans are unaware of
  3.  They give you a higher vantage point to spot predators and prey
  4.  They can carry a lot of stuff or drag things for you; immensely useful
  5.  They speed the pace of travel which is something that Hinterland has noted from it's fan feedback as a complaint
  6.  They provide companionship

Horses definitely don't like bears or the smell of bears. The smell of a horse, on the other hand, might attract a big predator like a grizzly. Grizzlies are well known as a danger to corralled horses. The bears in TLD seem to be unusually aggressive towards humans. Black bears aren't typically so aggressive.

I think we can trust Hinterland to deliver an appealing creature in the horse that won't simply mimic the magic abilities of horses in other games. I can't help but wonder if the in game horses are going to have trouble foraging for food with the extreme weather and heavy snows. It could be both a bane and a boon. That's what I love about the game; the trade offs.:x

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38 minutes ago, SteveP said:

 They can defend you against the wolves

Only in your dreams. Unless we're talking about specially trained warhorses e.g. from ancient Greece of the middle ages here, almost no horse will ever come running to defend their owner against an attacker. (And I'm only adding "almost" here because one should never say never and one out of a thousand horses might really try to fight a wolf to rescue you).

Horses are the very epitome of flight animals. If anything scares them, their first instinct is always to run away. Horses only resort to fighting if they can't run away for some reason, e.g. because they're leashed or try to protect a newborn foal. 

No matter how much you like them or how much they like you, they're not going to fight for your protection like a dog would. They will dash away in the opposite direction and that's it. :winky:

 

 

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6 hours ago, SteveP said:

I think one's attitude toward horses depends upon one's experiences. If you've spent any time around them in real life, you get an appreciation for their ability and personality. Y'all have been complaining about loneliness and wanting a companion; well here it is, the horse!

There are several advantages of a horse:

  1.  They can defend you against the wolves
  2.  They have sensitive hearing and sense of smell and can warn you of animals in the vicinity which we humans are unaware of
  3.  They give you a higher vantage point to spot predators and prey
  4.  They can carry a lot of stuff or drag things for you; immensely useful
  5.  They speed the pace of travel which is something that Hinterland has noted from it's fan feedback as a complaint
  6.  They provide companionship

Horses definitely don't like bears or the smell of bears. The smell of a horse, on the other hand, might attract a big predator like a grizzly. Grizzlies are well known as a danger to corralled horses. The bears in TLD seem to be unusually aggressive towards humans. Black bears aren't typically so aggressive.

I think we can trust Hinterland to deliver an appealing creature in the horse that won't simply mimic the magic abilities of horses in other games. I can't help but wonder if the in game horses are going to have trouble foraging for food with the extreme weather and heavy snows. It could be both a bane and a boon. That's what I love about the game; the trade offs.:x

@SteveP is accurate on most points. But I have to agree with @Scyzara about the horses' tendency to bolt and run from danger.

4 hours ago, Scyzara said:

Only in your dreams. Unless we're talking about specially trained warhorses e.g. from ancient Greece of the middle ages here, almost no horse will ever come running to defend their owner against an attacker. (And I'm only adding "almost" here because one should never say never and one out of a thousand horses might really try to fight a wolf to rescue you).

Horses are the very epitome of flight animals. If anything scares them, their first instinct is always to run away. Horses only resort to fighting if they can't run away for some reason, e.g. because they're leashed or try to protect a newborn foal. 

No matter how much you like them or how much they like you, they're not going to fight for your protection like a dog would. They will dash away in the opposite direction and that's it. :winky:

 

 

I, too have a hard time seeing horses protect their people from predators. There are a few individuals I've met who took a blow from another horse rather than run over the person standing next to them, but whether they would stand their ground in the face of a wolf or bear is another thing altogether.

As a former horse owner and rider, I prefer to see horses left loose in the game. Not tied up, not hobbled, not penned up or restricted in any way. That way they can remove themselves from danger, and I'd only have to worry about myself . . .

Horses do trust their people. They will come back to you when the coast is clear. And they will stand beside you until you either a) get on their back or b) tell them where to go. The problem is, people don't trust their horses.

I've been bucked off my mare three times - my fault really, I didn't cinch up the girth snugly enough and the saddle was pinching her back. All three times, she didn't run away, but came back and waited for me to pick myself up off the ground. She trusted me to figure out why she bucked me off and fix it before I got back on her. She was my first horse and taught me so much about the way horses think and see the world and their humans. She also taught me about being a veterinarian. 

I'm going to stop reminiscing and end this post before I start tearing up . . .

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I am in favor of horses in the game IF they serve a specific purpose, like long distance travel in a very desolate region. I don't see them being useful in any of the regions we have currently, a horse would be very useful in a region with about the same amount of buildings as pleasant valley, just spread out over an exponentially larger area.

As far as finding a horse goes, I really don't see us being able to catch a wild one or an abandoned one, BUT maybe there is a small enclave of survivors, and one of them has a few horses he would barter with?

Another question is, once you have the horse and have ridden it around, what do you do with it? Turn it loose? Eat it? (*shudder*) Trade it back to an NPC?

And just some food for thought, in the book Grass Beyond the Mountains, the community where the author lived (in northern canada) was very dependent on horses. In the winter that was their only transport, 

Sam

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I think you guys are thinking too aggressively about the meaning of protection. If you are on horseback and your steed runs away from danger, that is protecting you and her. Discretion is the better part of valor; I don't do battle with wolves unless I need the food; I just avoid them. So NO, your horse is not going into battle but she can still provide you with protection.

Also you need to pay attention to your horse such as it's nervous attitude, snorting and moving it's head and ears. A warning is better than a fight. Worst comes to worse, your horse will kick that wolf silly, IF it manages to get in range. Get it?

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7 hours ago, SteveP said:

I think you guys are thinking too aggressively about the meaning of protection. If you are on horseback and your steed runs away from danger, that is protecting you and her. Discretion is the better part of valor; I don't do battle with wolves unless I need the food; I just avoid them. So NO, your horse is not going into battle but she can still provide you with protection.

Also you need to pay attention to your horse such as it's nervous attitude, snorting and moving it's head and ears. A warning is better than a fight. Worst comes to worse, your horse will kick that wolf silly, IF it manages to get in range. Get it?

I agree, a horse can KICK! In the wild, when a herd of horses is surrounded by a wolf pack, they group together very tightly with their hind legs facing out and use their back legs to kick at the wolves. I would say a single horse would be more inclined to run, though.

Now a horse vs a cougar, that could be an entirely different story.

Sam

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I would hate the instant travel with horses (I would hate instant travel in any form). No, I want horses but let them be an extension of yourself. Use them to carry things and the horse gets tired too, cold, needs to eat (not necessarily you feeding him, but letting it go feed), it's not an instant travel to  everywhere. I like the idea of a really big map for it to be used. Pleasent valley would be great for it too

With the amount of wolves and animals around it could be complicated. I keep on saying the animals should appear less, should be stronger and more difficult to find. That way hunting and defending oneself it's quite the moment. 

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